Submitted by Hambydammit on December 28, 2007 - 2:25pm.
Quote:
These days, it is the secularists who seem to be most intent on pushing a proposed right never to be offended by confrontation with the Christian Gospel, Christian witness, or Christian speech and symbolism. This motivation lies behind the incessant effort to remove all symbols, representations, references, and images related to Christianity from the public square.
False. That is not the reasoning behind it. We want symbols removed from schools, court rooms, etc, because we are NOT A CHRISTIAN COUNTRY. We are not supposed to be religious at all. We are simply supposed to allow people to practice their own religions without undue government intervention.
When I attend a function at a state university, and there is a prayer to Jesus that I'm expected to participate in, I am left with a choice: Ostracize myself or pretend to agree. If you invite me to a prayer meeting at your house, I can just decline the invitation, but if I want an education, I have to go to school. If the schools are allowed to promote a religion, that's not offensive to me -- it's discriminatory.
Consider this: I've been called for jury duty three times in my life. I've been struck all three times after expressing my atheism. Granted, I didn't particularly want to do jury duty, but that's not the point. I am not allowed to participate because of my lack of Christianity. Posting the ten commandments is not offensive to me -- it promotes and encourages discrimination against me.
Consider the recent congressional resolution elevating Christian holidays. They could have simply said, "We support all holidays, all religions, and non-believers alike." Instead, they chose to go with the majority. That is not offensive -- it's discrimination.
Quote:
The very existence of a large cross, placed on government property as a memorial, outside San Diego, California, has become a major issue in the courts, and now in Congress. Those pressing for the removal of the cross claim that they are offended by the fact that they are forced to see this Christian symbol from time to time.
I'll shut up about the large cross if we include an equally large and prominent symbol of every other world religion -- and an equally large and prominent atheist "A." You see how it works? It's not about promoting religion. It's about preferential treatment for any religion and discrimination against the non-religious.
Quote:
We should note carefully that this notion of offendedness is highly emotive in character.
And it's also a strawman. This isn't about being offended. I'm not offended when people pray before meals. I'm discriminated against when the government forces me to either act Christian or be part of the disenfranchised minority.
Quote:
In other words, those who now claim to be offended are generally speaking of an emotional state that has resulted from some real or perceived insult to their belief system or from contact with someone else's belief system
Again. Horseshit.
We don't claim to be offended. We claim to be discriminated against.
Quote:
In this sense, being offended does not necessarily involve any real harm but points instead to the fact that the mere presence of such an argument, image, or symbol evokes an emotional response of offendedness.
Real Harm:
Transformation from Secular to Religious Government
Under the Bush administration, our country is experiencing a major transformation from a secular to a religious government. The President's faith-based initiative is central to this transformation and raises serious questions about church-state separation. "Slouching toward theocracy. President Bush's faith-based initiative is doing better than you think," by Bill Berkowitz, 2/6/04 provides an overview of this transformation.
In his State of the Union address, Bush renewed a call for Congress to make permanent his faith-based proposals that would allow religious organizations to compete for more government contracts and grants without a strict separation between their religious activities and social service programs.
On February 4, 2004, the U.S. House of Representatives voted for provisions in a social services bill that allow religiously based job discrimination in publicly funded programs run by churches.
Remember -- churches pay no taxes. Isn't that what you call an unfair business advantage??? Real harm
Americans United for Separation of Church and State has been following Bush's Faith-Based Initiative since he assumed the office of President. They have filed lawsuits, and their magazine, Church and State, has many important, in-depth articles.
A new study of the "faith-based" initiative raises troubling questions about the Bush administration's disregard for constitutional and civil rights protections, according to Americans United for Separation of Church and State.
The report issued today by the Roundtable on Religion and Social Welfare Policy lists the many executive actions President George W. Bush has taken to fund a wide range of religion-based social services. The sweeping changes in federal policy, the report indicates, have come without congressional authorization.
Philadelphia Church That Endorsed Bush Gets $1 Million 'Faith-Based' Grant Wednesday June 23, 2004
"The Rev. Lusk endorsed candidate Bush, and wound up getting a $1-million faith-based grant from the Bush administration," [Barry] Lynn said. "Now there's a heavenly payoff."
Real Harm.
The Texas Republican Party Platform, 2002:
"Our Party pledges to do everything within its power to dispel the mythof separation of church and state."
Christian Coalition: Speakers at the Road To Victory rally sponsored by Christian Coalition just before the 2002 elections,
"seemed to compete with each other to say the worst things they could about this concept." Coalition founder Pat Robertson who described church-state separation as "a lie" and "a distortion foisted on us over the past few years by left- wingers." Alabama Chief Justice Roy Moore termed separation "a fable" and insisted that the phrase "has so warped our society it's unbelievable." Sen. James Inhofe (R-Okla.) upped the ante, calling concerns about church and state "the phoniest argument there is."
But the award for the most vicious attack goes to Joyce Meyer, the TV preacher who cosponsored the Coalition's national meeting. Meyer lambasted the constitutional concept as "really a deception from "Satan."
David Barton and the "Myth" of Church-State Separation, Beliefnet (a web site of faith and spirituality)
As a "Christian" nation activist, David Barton, Vice Chair of the Republican Party, was once considered so extreme he was not taken seriously. Now he is listed by Time magazine as one of the nation's 25 most influential evangelicals.
He was also featured on the front page of The New York Times Week in Review, February 27, 2005: Putting God Back Into American History.
Supreme Court Justice Scalia
On January 12, 2003, Supreme Court Justice Scalia speaking at an event called Religious Freedom Day, publicly attacked the separation of church and state signaling the problems this important principle would have under a Supreme Court with a Scalia majority.
Um... Supreme Court Justice attacking separation of Church and State? I'd say there's some real damage being done.
Never Mind, trust to chance -- keep a sharp look out -- There is many a happy slave.
--Charles Darwin, on whether or not he ought to marry.
Quote: These days, it is
False. That is not the reasoning behind it. We want symbols removed from schools, court rooms, etc, because we are NOT A CHRISTIAN COUNTRY. We are not supposed to be religious at all. We are simply supposed to allow people to practice their own religions without undue government intervention.
When I attend a function at a state university, and there is a prayer to Jesus that I'm expected to participate in, I am left with a choice: Ostracize myself or pretend to agree. If you invite me to a prayer meeting at your house, I can just decline the invitation, but if I want an education, I have to go to school. If the schools are allowed to promote a religion, that's not offensive to me -- it's discriminatory.
Consider this: I've been called for jury duty three times in my life. I've been struck all three times after expressing my atheism. Granted, I didn't particularly want to do jury duty, but that's not the point. I am not allowed to participate because of my lack of Christianity. Posting the ten commandments is not offensive to me -- it promotes and encourages discrimination against me.
Consider the recent congressional resolution elevating Christian holidays. They could have simply said, "We support all holidays, all religions, and non-believers alike." Instead, they chose to go with the majority. That is not offensive -- it's discrimination.
I'll shut up about the large cross if we include an equally large and prominent symbol of every other world religion -- and an equally large and prominent atheist "A." You see how it works? It's not about promoting religion. It's about preferential treatment for any religion and discrimination against the non-religious.
And it's also a strawman. This isn't about being offended. I'm not offended when people pray before meals. I'm discriminated against when the government forces me to either act Christian or be part of the disenfranchised minority.
Again. Horseshit.
We don't claim to be offended. We claim to be discriminated against.
Real Harm:
Transformation from Secular to Religious Government
Under the Bush administration, our country is experiencing a major transformation from a secular to a religious government. The President's faith-based initiative is central to this transformation and raises serious questions about church-state separation. "Slouching toward theocracy. President Bush's faith-based initiative is doing better than you think," by Bill Berkowitz, 2/6/04 provides an overview of this transformation.
On February 4, 2004, the U.S. House of Representatives voted for provisions in a social services bill that allow religiously based job discrimination in publicly funded programs run by churches.
Remember -- churches pay no taxes. Isn't that what you call an unfair business advantage??? Real harm
Americans United for Separation of Church and State has been following Bush's Faith-Based Initiative since he assumed the office of President. They have filed lawsuits, and their magazine, Church and State, has many important, in-depth articles.
From Americans United, August 17, 2004:
Philadelphia Church That Endorsed Bush Gets $1 Million 'Faith-Based' Grant
Wednesday June 23, 2004
Never Mind, trust to chance -- keep a sharp look out -- There is many a happy slave.
--Charles Darwin, on whether or not he ought to marry.