Back in the saddle again...

Louis_Cypher's picture

 

 As I contemplate the myriad divisions between religious folk, the strife and disharmony that threatens the fabric of society, I can look back to a simpler time, when Catholics and Protestants stood united, arm in arm on at least one issue. That would be their stern and righteous denunciation of the heresies of Galileo Galilei .

Quote:
"But to affirm that the Sun is really fixed in the center of the heavens and that the Earth revolves very swiftly around the Sun is a dangerous thing, not only irritating the theologians and philosophers, but injuring our holy faith and making the sacred scriptures false."

Robert Bellarmine,

Cardinal of the Roman Catholic Church and the foremost Vatican theologian of the seventeeth century, who also noted;

Quote:
"To assert that the earth revolves around the sun is as erroneous as to claim that Jesus was not born of a virgin."
 

But of course in these enlightened times, the Church has apologized for its ill treatment of Galileo, has it not?

Well…sort of.

In 1990, Cardinal Ratzinger , now known as Pope Benedict XVI, quoted the philosopher Paul Feyerabend as saying;

Quote:
"The Church at the time of Galileo kept much more closely to reason than did Galileo himself, and she took into consideration the ethical and social consequences of Galileo's teaching too. Her verdict against Galileo was rational and just and the revision of this verdict can be justified only on the grounds of what is politically opportune."


But of course, the Protestant Reformation brought with it an age of reason and enlightenment…
Not so much.

Martin Luther said;

Quote:
"Scripture simply says that the moon, the sun, and the stars were placed in the firmament of the heaven, below and above which heaven are the waters... It is likely that the stars are fastened to the firmament like globes of fire, to shed light at night... We Christians must be different from the philosophers in the way we think about the causes of things. And if some are beyond our comprehension like those before us concerning the waters above the heavens, we must believe them rather than wickedly deny them or presumptuously interpret them in conformity with our understanding."


And;

Quote:
"People gave ear to an upstart astrologer who strove to show that the earth revolves, not the heavens or the firmament, the sun and the moon. Whoever wishes to appear clever must devise some new system, which of all systems is of course the very best. This fool [or 'man'] wishes to reverse the entire science of astronomy; but sacred Scripture tells us that Joshua commanded the sun to stand still, and not the earth."

But what of that ultimate rationalist, John Calvin?

Quote:
"Those who assert that 'the earth moves and turns'...[are] motivated by 'a spirit of bitterness, contradiction, and faultfinding;' possessed by the devil, they aimed 'to pervert the order of nature.'"

And;

Quote:
"The heavens revolve daily, and, immense as is their fabric, and inconceivable the rapidity of their revolutions, we experience no concussion -- no disturbance in the harmony of their motion. The sun, though varying its course every diurnal revolution, returns annually to the same point. The planets, in all their wandering, maintain their respective positions. How could the earth hang suspended in the air were it not upheld by God's hand? (Job 26:7) By what means could it [the earth] maintain itself unmoved, while the heavens above are in constant rapid motion, did not its Divine Maker fix and establish it?”

Today, ‘enlightened’ theists try desperately to distance themselves from these wrong headed assertions…

 

they try.

 

 



 

 

Christianity: A disgusting middle eastern blood cult, based in human sacrifice, with sacraments of cannibalism and vampirism, whose highest icon is of a near naked man hanging in torment from a device of torture.

Brian37's picture

Louis_Cypher wrote:   As I

Louis_Cypher wrote:

 

 As I contemplate the myriad divisions between religious folk, the strife and disharmony that threatens the fabric of society, I can look back to a simpler time, when Catholics and Protestants stood united, arm in arm on at least one issue. That would be their stern and righteous denunciation of the heresies of Galileo Galilei .

Quote:
"But to affirm that the Sun is really fixed in the center of the heavens and that the Earth revolves very swiftly around the Sun is a dangerous thing, not only irritating the theologians and philosophers, but injuring our holy faith and making the sacred scriptures false."

Robert Bellarmine,

Cardinal of the Roman Catholic Church and the foremost Vatican theologian of the seventeeth century, who also noted;

Quote:
"To assert that the earth revolves around the sun is as erroneous as to claim that Jesus was not born of a virgin."
 

But of course in these enlightened times, the Church has apologized for its ill treatment of Galileo, has it not?

Well…sort of.

In 1990, Cardinal Ratzinger , now known as Pope Benedict XVI, quoted the philosopher Paul Feyerabend as saying;

Quote:
"The Church at the time of Galileo kept much more closely to reason than did Galileo himself, and she took into consideration the ethical and social consequences of Galileo's teaching too. Her verdict against Galileo was rational and just and the revision of this verdict can be justified only on the grounds of what is politically opportune."


But of course, the Protestant Reformation brought with it an age of reason and enlightenment…
Not so much.

Martin Luther said;

Quote:
"Scripture simply says that the moon, the sun, and the stars were placed in the firmament of the heaven, below and above which heaven are the waters... It is likely that the stars are fastened to the firmament like globes of fire, to shed light at night... We Christians must be different from the philosophers in the way we think about the causes of things. And if some are beyond our comprehension like those before us concerning the waters above the heavens, we must believe them rather than wickedly deny them or presumptuously interpret them in conformity with our understanding."


And;

Quote:
"People gave ear to an upstart astrologer who strove to show that the earth revolves, not the heavens or the firmament, the sun and the moon. Whoever wishes to appear clever must devise some new system, which of all systems is of course the very best. This fool [or 'man'] wishes to reverse the entire science of astronomy; but sacred Scripture tells us that Joshua commanded the sun to stand still, and not the earth."

But what of that ultimate rationalist, John Calvin?

Quote:
"Those who assert that 'the earth moves and turns'...[are] motivated by 'a spirit of bitterness, contradiction, and faultfinding;' possessed by the devil, they aimed 'to pervert the order of nature.'"

And;

Quote:
"The heavens revolve daily, and, immense as is their fabric, and inconceivable the rapidity of their revolutions, we experience no concussion -- no disturbance in the harmony of their motion. The sun, though varying its course every diurnal revolution, returns annually to the same point. The planets, in all their wandering, maintain their respective positions. How could the earth hang suspended in the air were it not upheld by God's hand? (Job 26:7) By what means could it [the earth] maintain itself unmoved, while the heavens above are in constant rapid motion, did not its Divine Maker fix and establish it?”

Today, ‘enlightened’ theists try desperately to distance themselves from these wrong headed assertions…

 

they try.

 

 

You tell the child Santa isn't real they point to the presents under the tree in order to keep their claims rather than accept that Santa is man made.

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under BrianJames Rational Poet also on twitter under Brianrrs37

Jean Chauvin's picture

Hey Opie

Hey Opie,

I see you have some irritation and disgust in how you write. The reason is based on a lack of education on your part which I am glad to help.

First off, Roman Catholicism is not a Chrisitian Church. They are one of the biggest non Chrisitan cults in the world.

You see, the foundation of the Church of Rome is based on a 5th century phony list of popes that they claim succeeded Peter. But Historically speaking, the Eastern Church came before the Roman Church did. Since Rome broke away from the Eastern Byzantine Church both in the 4th century over the issue of Easter and the once again permanently in the 11th century, then technically speaking, they are a Protestant Church since they broke away and protested again the East twice.

Rome eats Jesus during the eucharist. According to John Hardon in his question and answer catechism, he says:

Quote:
Christ is eaten; his hands feet and human heart in all his thoughts and passions

By taking John 6 out of context, justification is not a one time thing but a perpetual thing since when you eat Jesus you poop  him out. Since you poop Jesus out when you eat him, then you have to keep eating him after you poop to get that justification back.

Since Jesus is not poop and since it is Unbiblical to eat the penis of Jesus in a ritual, then logically Roma is a cult. and not Christian.

_____

Politically speaking, Rome was also the old version of what we think of the New World Order. They did not use Scripture for edification and good society but for money, sex and corruption.

_____

The Bible actually speaks of the earth being round in many places. The notion of  a flat earth is not Biblical and Rome faught people who chal

lenged them because of PRIDE and POLITICS. Rome was not familiar with reason.

_____

Regarding your luther quotes. When referring to Luther or Augustine, you have to ask yourself when that quote was taken. You see, like Augustine, Luther evolved in his thinking in his life and if you were to quote him early verses late, there could be some mis-leading. However, by what you quoted, I have no problem with his GENERAL descriptions. Luther was not an astronomy but a theologian.

All truth found in science are simply there because God the author of the Bible put it there. Thus if science is the goal for knowledge of what God created, then logically it would be wise to read His Word and have science via the Bible as the foundation, it is because of this that modern Science was born in the first place.

_______

In conclusion my bitter angry friend, The Reformation was theologically the effort to bring Christianity back into consistency. While there has always been Christians even before the cult of Rome (Jude 3-4), it was not able to fight the tryanny of Rome until Reformation kicked ROme's ass both physically and intellectually.

And if I was Zwingli, I too would have faught Rome with my sword and would have fell on my sword with honor.

Respectfully,

Jean Chauvin (Jude 3).

A Rational Christian of Intelligence (rare)with a valid and sound justification for my epistemology and a logical refutation for those with logical fallacies and false worldviews upon their normative of thinking in retrospect to objective normative(s). This is only understood via the imago dei in which we all are.

Respectfully,

Jean Chauvin (Jude 3).

Louis_Cypher's picture

Be my Guest...

 I have a sword I could lone you should you choose to fall on it.
It would improve the gene pool.
You sir, are an idiot.

 

LC >;-}>

Christianity: A disgusting middle eastern blood cult, based in human sacrifice, with sacraments of cannibalism and vampirism, whose highest icon is of a near naked man hanging in torment from a device of torture.

Jean Chauvin's picture

Hey Louis

Hey Louis,

My bitter angry friend, I just educated you since it appears you dropped out of school in the 4th grade to help your papa run the farm.

I'm really here to help you be the best atheist you can be. So far, you kind of suck. But lets be friends.

I'm just guessing, were you with the Hell's Angels at one time? you were, weren't you?

Respectfully,

Jean Chauvin (Jude 3).

A Rational Christian of Intelligence (rare)with a valid and sound justification for my epistemology and a logical refutation for those with logical fallacies and false worldviews upon their normative of thinking in retrospect to objective normative(s). This is only understood via the imago dei in which we all are.

Respectfully,

Jean Chauvin (Jude 3).

Brian37's picture

Jean Chauvin wrote:Hey

Jean Chauvin wrote:

Hey Louis,

My bitter angry friend, I just educated you since it appears you dropped out of school in the 4th grade to help your papa run the farm.

I'm really here to help you be the best atheist you can be. So far, you kind of suck. But lets be friends.

I'm just guessing, were you with the Hell's Angels at one time? you were, weren't you?

Respectfully,

Jean Chauvin (Jude 3).

The sword he is telling you you are falling on is your own fucking stupidity. Since you don't have the political power or financial power of the Church of the dark ages, all you serve to us is a museum piece of what an asshole looks like. All 7 billion of us would have to be scared if a selfish jackass like you were in charge. 6 million Jews can attest to what stupidity and self centeredness looks like. You are no fucking different to us than the assholes who slammed planes into buildings because they thought their god was as real as you think yours is.

 

We don't suck at being atheists, you suck at being a decent human being.

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under BrianJames Rational Poet also on twitter under Brianrrs37

Jean Chauvin's picture

Hey Brian

Hey Brian,

Atheism = Mao = Death to Humanity

Chrisitanity = George Washington  = Freedom to Humanity.

Plain and simple. History is on my side, while your emotionals are on yours.

Respectfully,

Jean Chauvin (Jude 3).

A Rational Christian of Intelligence (rare)with a valid and sound justification for my epistemology and a logical refutation for those with logical fallacies and false worldviews upon their normative of thinking in retrospect to objective normative(s). This is only understood via the imago dei in which we all are.

Respectfully,

Jean Chauvin (Jude 3).

Brian37's picture

Jean Chauvin wrote:Hey

Jean Chauvin wrote:

Hey Brian,

Atheism = Mao = Death to Humanity

Chrisitanity = George Washington  = Freedom to Humanity.

Plain and simple. History is on my side, while your emotionals are on yours.

Respectfully,

Jean Chauvin (Jude 3).

Typical

When you don't have a leg to stand on equate the atheist to an authoritarian dictator.

Mao was about absolute rule, funny how the god you claim exists has the same thing.

Mao=obey me or else

God=obey me or else.

Saying "fuck you" to authority figures are HOW slavery ended. How women gained the right to vote. How gays in many states can now get married.

Seems that your claimed fictional sky daddy has more in common with dictators than I do.

 

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under BrianJames Rational Poet also on twitter under Brianrrs37

Louis_Cypher's picture

Let me retort....

 I'm neither bitter or angry, and I'm certainly not your friend. 

Atheism = Mao... love it... 

First, Mao established a 'cult of personality' with himself as the god-head... he wasn't an atheist, he was just another phony demigod, much like jesus.
Second, Mao unified China and put it on the road to being the modern nation it is today. I don't excuse his excesses, but he's not a really great example if you are looking for a false analogy for atheism.

George Washington... Deist (not a Christian), slave holder, rich white guy who grew richer over the course of the Revolutionary war... he invented the expense account, and took his pay in expensive wine and tobacco.

As far as my affiliation, no, my brothers were Banditos, Not HA.

However, my pencil necked comrade, if I were a member of a criminal organization known for it's violent proclivities and long reach, would I truly be the one with whom you'd wish to fuck?

Just sayin'

 

LC >;-}>

 

Christianity: A disgusting middle eastern blood cult, based in human sacrifice, with sacraments of cannibalism and vampirism, whose highest icon is of a near naked man hanging in torment from a device of torture.

Jean Chauvin's picture

Hello

Hello,

I studied washington. No where in any original sources that I've read does he call himself a deist. He was raised an anglican and speaks like an anglican.

However, there are some documents that do tend to have some deist influence this is true. But he was not part of any deist organization and this was earlier.

But dominately, via the influence of Chisitanity on his background and his adult life, his influence was Chrisitanity which then was the influence of America my hell's angel friend lol.

For you to praise mao, mao murdered well over 15 million people which is a consistent character trait for atheism. Also, since consistent atheism is the worship of self and selfishness, then Mao was just being consistent and pronouncing how atheists act and feel about their ego selves.

While most atheists are inconsistent, most believe they are their own gods and they worship themselves in extremely similar ways as the famous satanist Anton LaVey.

Mao also hated art and music. Thing of beauty he hated. This is also consistent with atheism since all in atheism consistently is ugly.

Mao should be every atheists hero, the consistent atheists anyway.

Respectfully,

Jean Chauvin (Jude 3).

A Rational Christian of Intelligence (rare)with a valid and sound justification for my epistemology and a logical refutation for those with logical fallacies and false worldviews upon their normative of thinking in retrospect to objective normative(s). This is only understood via the imago dei in which we all are.

Respectfully,

Jean Chauvin (Jude 3).

Brian37's picture

Jean Chauvin wrote:Hello,I

Jean Chauvin wrote:

Hello,

I studied washington. No where in any original sources that I've read does he call himself a deist. He was raised an anglican and speaks like an anglican.

However, there are some documents that do tend to have some deist influence this is true. But he was not part of any deist organization and this was earlier.

But dominately, via the influence of Chisitanity on his background and his adult life, his influence was Chrisitanity which then was the influence of America my hell's angel friend lol.

For you to praise mao, mao murdered well over 15 million people which is a consistent character trait for atheism. Also, since consistent atheism is the worship of self and selfishness, then Mao was just being consistent and pronouncing how atheists act and feel about their ego selves.

While most atheists are inconsistent, most believe they are their own gods and they worship themselves in extremely similar ways as the famous satanist Anton LaVey.

Mao also hated art and music. Thing of beauty he hated. This is also consistent with atheism since all in atheism consistently is ugly.

Mao should be every atheists hero, the consistent atheists anyway.

Respectfully,

Jean Chauvin (Jude 3).

No, you want Mao to be our hero, that is yet another example of your ignorance and bigotry. Go fuck yourself asshole.

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under BrianJames Rational Poet also on twitter under Brianrrs37