I'm pleased to hear that you are getting some improvement in this area.

It makes life very tough. At least you don't have to worry about pain in an afterlife.

Ex,

I've never ridden a Moto Guzzi or a Ducatti, for that matter.  I had a few friends growing up who had them.  Mostly I rode Hondas back in the day.  My last Honda was a PC800, which I totally loved, and which I'd buy again if I find one in good shape.  Compared to the British and Japanese bikes (I was riding about the time AMF bought, and nearly destroyed, Harley-Davidson), the Italian bikes were "different".  BMWs were just too bizarre.

I have a really hard time relating to people's sudden discovery that they are mortal beings, as I grew up knowing I nearly died not all that long into this project called "My Life".  It taught me what I think you're learning now -- this really could be (G-d forbid) the last time you get to enjoy taking the bike out on some twisty road.  The harder thing for me is not having a death-wish, because there have been times when I've thought "Hey, I survived being run over by a car!", then did something overly dangerous.  I'm not afraid of dying, but I do want to live to be old.  There really is a balance in there, and sometimes I have to remind myself of that.  Don't go out and do anything inconsistent with growing old.

It's a shame that Fundamentalist Christianity uses a lot more of the stick, and a lot less of the carrot.  Fundamentalists can do some serious damage -- that's what destroyed the 2nd Temple, a bunch of Jewish religious fanatics who weren't even doing what they were supposed to be doing -- and if we aren't careful, the current batch of Fundamentalists are going to cause some major destruction.

 Furry, 

I love all bikes, even scooters. The PC800 was a neat bike.  It was on a short "got to get" list of mine for awhile.

I did think when I was young that I would live to my 80s, maybe even 90s, since my relatives particularly on my father's side lived to that age. My first bout with NHL in 98 changed all that. Never factored something like that in my life. Not many died from cancer in my extended family. Heart attacks were more common. But I have always been very health conscience while few in my family are the same. (SDA's don't drink coffee, alcohol, smoke and if you are really good, which I was ,you would be a vegan). I was in the best shape of my life when I contracted NHL. After a few treatments and all my hair was gone I was with my parents and some cousins. All obese. Two of my cousins went on to have their stomach stapled to level set. I sat there and said "Look at you people, I did everything right, in the best shape ever and I get cancer. Meanwhile you do little to improve your health and are healthy as a horse".  I had to laugh. 

When I went to Alanon, I ultimately found out I was ACOA (adult child of an alcoholic). I grew up with alcoholics all around me. My childhood was chaotic. Always a crisis brewing. If you grew up in an alcoholic home, even a dysfunctional home, and were the "perfect" child, you probably would identify with me. If there is a crisis you probably would want me there. I go into a robot mode, no feeling, just focus on the problem and fix it. I never was just a child. I became very analytical and countless ideas popped into my head to try to fix the problem quickly. When the problem was fixed I continued in alert mode. I pretty much stayed in high alert mode all the time. I would have more trouble with a no crisis time, than a crisis time.

Many ACOAs go into helping professions. I became a minister - duh. Churches have nothing but people in crisis. It was perfect for my need to fix.

I even looked for crises where there is none. I knew what you needed before you asked, like someO-E else we know. I was entirely co-dependent on other's lives. And one thing I could never do is ask for help. I didn't need anything. I had no wants. But part of my pattern after the crisis had been averted was to fall apart. In the big crises in my life (or others) I was great when I was working on the problem. Once a solution was found and successfully implemented I didn't know how to take care of myself and it was those times I did stupid, unhealthy things. I was caring for others but when the dust cleared I was abusive to myself. I was doing my best when going thru cancer treatment. Being the good little boy, following all orders, but when I got through it I did unhealthy things. I didn't exercise, I got very overweight. I bought fast motorcycles to see what they could do. It took a number of years to settle down and start to do the right things again. I bought slower motorcycles and took experience rider courses. I am a lot more careful now. I know my patterns (the one noted is just one of many) and must always be on the watch for them. I never get mad at them. They are old friends. The best I can do is have a good laugh with them and say "hey how you doing?" and then just listen. How so important it is to know myself. Doing that keeps me out of trouble and allows me to choose things consistent with an extended life.

Before when you told me to not be afraid to ask for help, that is always a good message for me.

It really is a sad thing for a child to have to face life and death issues. Sorry you went through that, but you learned some key lessons.  That's wonderful. 

Fundamentalism is the bane of our existence. They have not learn lessons from life or history. Immature, insecure, egomaniacs. Bullies.

Ex,

I know about "robot mode" -- when you understand how a "crisis" works, getting into the middle of one isn't scary.  When I went to rescue my father after Katrina, I ran across a group of guys driving to New Orleans with a rescue boat.  I gave them my number and said to call me if they needed someone to drive the boat and handle the rescue gear.  Only crazy people volunteer for a crisis.  Becoming a minister put you in good company -- the world needs more crazy people, even if you no longer buy into whatever got you interested in helping people in the first place.

 The neurosurgeon office had faxed all my information over to the hospital where I will undergo back surgery. Thursday I went to the hospital for a pre-op. The check-in guy confirmed my address and all, but then he looked up and said, it says here "Religion: None". Is that right?   I smiled and said yes, that is right. He seemed a bit surprised. I felt proud.

I am sure they have to be concerned about such things, don't want to have a law suit on their hands if they give blood to JW and save his life. Frankly I don't know why a fundie would ever go to hospital for the Holy Book says  

Believers don't need nor should need universal health care, so no one else should. God is the universal health care plan. He has this monopoly and they want to be the arbiters. A bit of anointing oil and prayer, bam, all better. Don't know how why the medical sciences have never figured out that simple solution.  

Two more days...hoping for some pain relief.  

Ex-minister my friend, you heard of that book "Losing faith in faith"?

It's about a clergyman like you who lost faith and left the church and became an atheist.  He said he couldn't continue doing something that in his heart knew wasn't true!

You must really identify with that right?

I was very much in love with the whole "Jesus" concept, until it just no longer made any sense.

My conceptualization of G-d is so vague and fuzzy, and pretty much always has been, that I'll never fall completely off the wagon and become an Atheist, but I definitely relate to anyone who lost their faith in whatever religion they happen to embrace.

You are correct. Cognitive dissonance to the max.

My uncle left a voice mail for me. He told me he loved me and was sorry for my recent little problem and I just should turn it over to God. That's all I need to do. Well, what's gonna happen is gonna happen, so the God part is meaningless to me.

The bible covers all bases when it comes to healing. God may or may not have given you this disease. So why pray for it to be removed? God may or may not heal you. So there is little point in asking. The divine WILL always prevails.  You just need to have faith. Huh? Faith in what? Faith in life just goes on.  

You seem to be very sensibly turning "your recent little problem" over to your surgeon.  Good choice.

He didn't really say, "your recent little problem", did he?  If so, what a jerk.

Virtual hugs.  Hang tough.

Yes he did. He is a jerk. He is not well liked and his conversion even by others members in the family seems too little too late. My mother even slipped that she HAS to love him because he is her brother. She is working hard to convince me he has changed, but I think she needs to convince herself first.

But hey how have you been? I feel privileged. Is your new job freeing you up some. I would love to see you on RRS posting more.

Ex-minister, I can certainly relate. Every single time that I have hit a major low point in my life ( and some of them have been REALLY bad, where the idea of blowing my head off seemed like a good option) it was all my "heathen" friends and outcasts that helped me get through it. 

What did all of my theist family and theistic people have to offer for me at those times ? I tell you : Scorn, arrogant condescension and smug " I told you so" attitudes. A whole lot of preaching about " this is what you get for turning your back on god" type of sneering garbage. 

Of course, like interrogators in some gulag, they would switch tactics at the last second and suddenly come up with " But, it can all be ok. Even now, as far away from god as you have become, you still have a chance to turn your life back to HIM ( you can just hear the capital letters in their voice) and he will bring you back up. 

I even wrote about it in one of my blogs. 

I learned that I had to pull myself up when I was down and not turn to family. 

Hell, it almost seems like theists DELIGHT in people's pain and vulnerability and prey upon it. 

I am totally convinced that is why you have so many of these assholes distributing bibles in prisons, hospitals and feeding the homeless. I don't think they are doing any of it out of the goodness of their hearts, they are doing it because they see desperate people and think : WOO HOO ! Time to get some fresh recruits into the ranks. 

I don't see them as much different than Hitler giving all those idealistic young people that were filled with anger about the poverty and desperation of Germany a new sense of "purpose". 

Ok, that's enough of my soapbox. 

Hope that things are going well and keep us updated about everything. 

You are handling this situation extremely well. Keep fighting the good fight. 

Double Post 

 My older brother, who became a Born Again Christian so he could chase the hot-babes at his local church, used to attack me because I wasn't his "version" of Christian.  Giving up Jesus for Lent didn't help matters.  He apparently had a bout with colon cancer a couple of years ago.  My former S-I-L was on the losing end of a battle with colon cancer at the same time -- she was a very devout "Independent Baptist" at the time as Mom.  Mom was a Southern Baptist and she died from ovarian cancer.  One of my aunts (raised Baptist, currently Presbyterian) is dealing with cancer at the moment.   I'm starting to think that being Baptist causes cancer.  You weren't a Baptist minister by any chance?  Perhaps you need to ask G-d to forgive you for that? 

Anyway, when Mom was fighting against cancer, we were having lunch at Mom and Dad's house.  My brother and I get into a theological argument about how much of the time in our day belongs to G-d.  My answer was "All of it".  He told me that was ridiculous.  I'll note that I've yet to have cancer.

On the other hand, three out of the four people in my family who've had to deal with cancer are really good people.  Based on my independent statistics, either you were a Baptist minister, or you're a really good person.  Since you keep mentioned SDA, I'm going to go with "really good person".

I don't know why people think they "have" to love their relatives.  Never made any sense to me - but some of my relatives are doozies.  I don't associate with them.

Full class load, full time job, 61 years old - I am freaking out of energy.  And now, my short term contract is over, so no job.  Classes are done, so no studying.  Almost 3 whole months to figure out the finances and to recuperate - but hey, my worries are only financial.  I finally figured out what I want to be when I grow up.  Now all I have to do is keep a roof over our heads until I get there.

In the meantime, I will try to post more often.  I am so rested, I am feeling bored.  And this site is always good for some time wasting. 

Rootin' for ya.

   Last time I recall you were doing a pretty good job of loving that son of yours. Great to hear from you, people wonder what you're up to.

Pffffffffftttttttttttttt.................

I don't "have" to love any of my 3 sons, I just do.  They do not "have" to love me, but they claim to.  The relatives I was thinking about were sister and brother, aunts, uncles, cousins. 

I'm up to no good as usual. 

Or you could say, I've been up past midnight studying way too often for this old lady to feel up to dealing with you young whippersnappers.

    Forgive me if I treading too close into your personal business cj but how is your husband ?  If I remember correctly he was battling some serious medical issues.

It's okay to ask and I don't mind telling.  He is doing fine - according to his cardiologist.  And he has recovered - as much as anyone ever does - from the stroke.  I think he could be a lot better, but I have to admit he is much better now if not perfect.  But then, I have to admit he never was perfect.  What a drag that would be - to be married to someone who was perfect.

When something major medical happens - stroke, heart, cancer - and you live through it, you have just had your nose rubbed in the fact that you are mortal.  Yes, intellectually we all know we are mortal.  But now you know it in your gut.  And you wait for the other shoe to drop.  Each day is a gift.  Just keep repeating after me - one foot in front of the other, each gift wrapped day at a time.

  tehehe  . .

  . .

So FurryCatHerder, what type of religion do you believe in?  One of the eastern ones or what?

Conservative Judaism, with a bit of Zen tossed in for good measure.

When I had my crisis of faith, I wanted to run off and find the first "Church of Deism" I could find, but apparently Deists don't have churches.  Go figure.

Judaism isn't at all like Christianity.  It also isn't at all like the parody of Judaism that Christians claim it is.  Nor is it an "exclusive" religion, in the sense that you're going to Hell if you aren't a member, like Christianity or Islam.

Yet you believe Jesus was mythical right?  Even very religious jews don't believe Jesus was the messiah or whatever right?

You know Asklepios healed the sick, raised the dead, and was known as the savior and redeemer?  Askepios is a Greek god for those who don't know. Son of Apollo!

 UPDATE

My surgery was this past monday and I didn't feeling like typing anything til today. Tuesday afternoon I was home and the rest of this week I have been trying to sort out what drugs to take and whether I should walk, sit, lie down and on which side. 

I would say at this point the surgery was very successfully for what it was intended to do. Get a tissue sample and get out as much as possible to get some pain relief. The doc said it was a sticky substance and he had to scrape some of the nerves to get it. He could see the nerves were red from the pressure that was put upon them from the tumor. Initial pathologist report it is NHL. Didn't realize NHL attacks this way. I suppose early next week my oncologist will give me a call for next step.

Today I am constipated, real bad. I easily get that way and these drugs are making sure I am. I have been taking the standard stuff. Prunes, prune juice, colace at hospital, and senokot. I am now trying MoM. Anybody got a stick of dynamite? 

Constipation has taught me if any religion is true it would be zen buddhism. Let nature take its course, don't force it, it is like snow falling off a leaf. I am practicing that as best I can. It ain't easy. Christianity is get the evil thing out NOW. There is no time to lose. That I have practiced and it isn't fun at all. I will be glad when this shit is off my mind.

• Taoism: Shit happens.
• Confucianism: Confucius say, "Shit happens."
• Buddhism: If shit happens, it isn't really shit.
• Zen Buddhism: Shit is, and is not.
• Zen Buddhism #2: What is the sound of shit happening?
• Hinduism: This shit has happened before.
• Islam: If shit happens, it is the will of Allah.
• Islam #2: If shit happens, kill the person responsible.
• Islam #3: If shit happens, blame Israel.
• Catholicism: If shit happens, you deserve it.
• Protestantism: Let shit happen to someone else.
• Presbyterian: This shit was bound to happen.
• Episcopalian: It's not so bad if shit happens, as long as you serve the right wine with it.
• Methodist: It's not so bad if shit happens, as long as you serve grape juice with it.
• Congregationalist: Shit that happens to one person is just as good as shit that happens to another.
• Unitarian: Shit that happens to one person is just as bad as shit that happens to another.
• Lutheran: If shit happens, don't talk about it.
• Fundamentalism: If shit happens, you will go to hell, unless you are born again. (Amen!)
• Fundamentalism #2: If shit happens to a televangelist, it's okay.
• Fundamentalism #3: Shit must be born again.
• Judaism: Why does this shit always happen to us?
• Calvinism: Shit happens because you don't work.
• Seventh Day Adventism: No shit shall happen on Saturday.
• Creationism: God made all shit.
• Secular Humanism: Shit evolves.
• Christian Science: When shit happens, don't call a doctor - pray!
• Christian Science #2: Shit happening is all in your mind.
• Unitarianism: Come let us reason together about this shit.
• Quakers: Let us not fight over this shit.
• Utopianism: This shit does not stink.
• Darwinism: This shit was once food.
• Capitalism: That's MY shit.
• Communism: It's everybody's shit.
• Feminism: Men are shit.
• Chauvinism: We may be shit, but you can't live without us...
• Commercialism: Let's package this shit.
• Impressionism: From a distance, shit looks like a garden.
• Idolism: Let's bronze this shit.
• Existentialism: Shit doesn't happen; shit IS.
• Existentialism #2: What is shit, anyway?
• Stoicism: This shit is good for me.
• Hedonism: There is nothing like a good shit happening!
• Mormonism: God sent us this shit.
• Mormonism #2: This shit is going to happen again.
• Mormonism #3: Bad shit helps us appreciate good shit.
• Wiccan: An it harm none, let shit happen.
• Scientology: If shit happens, see "Dianetics", p.157.
• Jehovah's Witnesses: >Knock< >Knock< Shit happens.
• Jehovah's Witnesses #2: May we have a moment of your time to show you some of our shit?
• Jehovah's Witnesses #3: Shit has been prophesied and is imminent; only the righteous shall survive its happening.
• Moonies: Only really happy shit happens.
• Hare Krishna: Shit happens, rama rama.
• Rastafarianism: Let's smoke this shit!
• Zoroastrianism: Shit happens half on the time.
• Church of SubGenius: BoB shits.
• Practical: Deal with shit one day at a time.
• Agnostic: Shit might have happened; then again, maybe not.
• Agnostic #2: Did someone shit?
• Agnostic #3: What is this shit?
• Satanism: SNEPPAH TIHS.
• Atheism: What shit?
• Atheism #2: I can't believe this shit!
• Nihilism: No shit.
• Narcisism: I am the shit!
• Alcoholics Anonymous:  Shit happens-one day at a time!
• FSM: The best shit is a pasta shit.

ive only been a member for a month now and i dont know but it seems like you get off by telling everyone they are all doomed for hell.. were you a member of westboro baptist church by chance?  dude keep that shit outta here nobody likes you and its apparent that you dont know shit about what your talking about.. and like ive seen posted all your doing is showing why religious folks are delusional  and dude your a fucking dumbass,,,  seriously... religion had its chance it was called THE DARK AGES get over yourself you stupid ignorant dogmatic dickhead

 Good to hear the surgery went well. 

To add to your list:

Libertarianism- I don't care about your shit. 

Egalitarianism- All shit is equally shit.

Philanthropism- Take my shit.

Progressivism- Take their shit.

Amish- Don't flush that shit.

Commercialism- Our shit is the best shit.

Consumerism- I need that shit. 

Wiccanism- Thats some mystical shit

Between Taoism and the Practical.

You may not want any suggestions, but anywho - Some family members have had good <whatever> with Senna, an herbal supplement.  Don't know if you have a source in your town or not.  For irritable bowel, I have had friends swear by coconut macaroons.  Seriously, it's the coconut.

Glad you are back, it sucks about the diagnosis.

lol  and for the record, zen buddhism is really pissed off that you called it a religion.  but it is a religion.  and freely admits it's a religion.  it just wants you to shut the fuck up.  about everything.  ok, i'll knock off.  but seriously, in vodka veritas.

zen is a big help in most situations (after all, "zen" is just the japanese translation of the sanskrit "dhyana," meaning "concentration&quot, but i think even the sternest rinzai zen priest would tell you to get a substance to move that shit.  in the words of charles bukowski, "alcoholics are rarely constipated," but i'm assuming beer and liquor are strictly off-limits to you.  what about a good, strong turkish coffee (i.e., boiling water over grounds in the cup)?  in my experience, it sends me to the pot almost instantaneously, and i'm not exaggerating.  i'm not sure if it works as well with decaf, since i don't know if caffeine is forbidden to you as well.

CJ,

Always open for suggestions. I think Senecot is Senna based. I have been using that.

http://www.drugs.com/mtm/senokot.html

Coconut macaroons? New one on me. Will give it a try.

Love that you are back on RRS posting. You put things in ways that makes sense to me and back up stuff with great links.

Iwbiek,

Didn't know that about alcoholics. Yeah, I am not supposed to be drinking. I do drink coffee, so will give turkish a try.
My wife makes the enchiladas that go through me like a freight train but they have to be used sparingly. It burns twice as bad going out as in.

The MoM has started me, so I am good this round. Should I go for chemo I will need every trick.

Thanks

Hey,

If I'm delusional demonstrate this via logical argument, not emotional boo hoo. You do not know how to logically keep your own in an argument. You are like a 5 year old that tells his mommy that I don't want choclate, I want buble gum, huh!

We're not eating ice scream my whimpy friend, pick up your brain, it has fallen on the floor and argue as to why, otherwise you are nothing more then a rotting piece of crap in the sewer.

And regarding nobody likeing me, I think Dana has a crush on me. 

Respectfully,

Jean Chauvin (Jude 3).

  Jean what would this board be without you. Never leave

ex-minister,

I've just now read this thread even though I've noticied the title of it for a couple weeks.

I'm so sorry you're going through all of this.

A lot of the reason why I stopped posting often around here is after I Am God As You and HeyZeusCreaseToe passed away.

I've literally had nightmares about them not being alive anymore.  Not dreams that freaked me out, but just made me wake up very sad.

I guess I identified with you guys too much.

I lost religion in a process too.   Took over five years.   You mentioned it took you decades.   Every time I read about someone that deconverted in a matter of a couple months I feel like I'm retarded or something for taking so long.   But I guess religion weaves it's web into us at different depths and with varying reach.

Soldier through, you bastard.   You're still needed.

SECOND WARNING

I have already split this thread with Jean's crap elsewhere and also subsequently deleted one post by Jean in this thread. I don't want him here, my blog, my rules. He adds nothing to this thread. Don't respond to him here. Because when I delete it deletes all responses.

I have no problem him being on any other thread, but not here. 

That split thread is

http://www.rationalresponders.com/forum/32418

feel free to chat with him there.

It took me about five years to completely deconvert, once I had left my theist family. But, if your going to count my childhood, you could say it took over twenty years.  I applaud the guys like ex-minister and Dan Barker, that have been in the midst of it all and have walked away. 

That takes abundant courage. Courage that a lot of people in that position would not do. 

Right before I moved out of my house ( years ago) I remember telling a fellow church member that I no longer could accept any of it. Their reply to me was " None of it may be true, but it is all that you got." My deconversion began at that moment. I could not live a lie, it was too miserable. I wonder how many others out there are like that fellow parishioner ? 

As I mentioned in another thread, even long after deconversion, when really unfair things would happen to me, I would still have that fleeting half/prayer/half wish thought. The god meme was a very strong one for me, one of the parts of me that was so intrinsic that it was almost impossible to let go of. 

Irks me when theists accuse me of being close minded, because they have no clue how OPEN-MINDED, that I had to be, in order to follow this whole thing through. 

aaron ra said it best when describing the circular argument you plug your ears and say "because im right, because im right, because im right"  jean your a fucking idiot

I too have bonded to many here including you. It certainly is an unusual place. I thank Sapient for that. I can be very frank here.

I don't like to see people drop off and never be heard from again. I need to know what happened to those I have grown fond of. TG Baker was one.  I was glad he continued to post as long as he could. An atheist facing death, honestly and upfront. That is a good example to show the fallacy of what the religious say. It exposes their ready lies. Of course, also, Christopher Hitchens. Brilliant to the end.

My appt for the oncologist will be sometime next week. Then I will know the game plan. As CJ has said my mortality has slapped me right in the face. Who knows I could live for decades and hope that I do. This oncologist gave me 13 more years after my first chemo. A lot of advances have happened since then. I intend to have him tell me the entire gamut of options including genome sequencing. I do get dark thoughts, but only when the pain is really bad. I like that there is this place where I can look at life as an atheist and not some trembling, superstitious person pleading for god's mercy. I don't like the idea of dying, but that was inevitable the day I was born. Some day. Some how. Knowing there isn't some angry god there comforts me. Jehovah/Jesus ain't IT. He should have at least given us equal footing with Adam & Eve who he showed himself to, a fairy tale digression. But he has now become some secret ghost that lurks in the shadows afraid to show himself due to same lame free-will argument, not even found in the bible. It is ludicrous. If there is a god it ain't this one. I came out of the shoot being taught about this god and glad before I left this life I was able to drop the fairy tale. Outwardly I am nearly alone in my family thinking this way. I am sure there are others, but it is not easy to take such a stand. Yes, decades is what it took. I could only get there when I got there. I was only ready when I was ready. And that I ultimately became ready I am grateful. Time in this sense meant nothing.

This tired old bastard will do his best to stick around.

A recent gift of painted rocks from my kids. It really is special to me.

   Quote on two rocks

      If you're going through hell, keep going  - Winston Churchill

      Hooray for most things! - George Carlin

Hey Ex-Min, I hope you can see the humor in this. It came across my FB page from an old high-school girlfriend who obviously isn't the sharpest tool in the shed.

I laughed at first then felt a little angry. She's a sweet girl but completely brain-washed. She's posts Jesus shit all the time and I wanted to comment on this one but I know there is just no reaching her.  I've tried.

- reply to "I pray the Lord heals you all in need"  -

"I wish the same and pray for the same. I would have absolutely no hope and it's a strength not a weakness to believe. There will be a day when every knee will bow. I have seen miracles and that makes it even more real. My pastors wife has been healed of cancer 4 TIMES IN 6 YEARS with no medical intervention. In my opinion there is no other explanation needed." 

If this would have been a child not getting proper medical treatment, I would have raised 'holy hell' with her.

Tonyjeffers,

that one is a real looney tune. I am left with so many questions. How was she diagnosed? Why would god's original fix not be permanent? Isn't that shoddy work for a perfect being? How come they don't have medical science document it to give glory to god? It certainly is repeatable

My wife hates going to the doctor and when I complained of symptoms back in 1998, which turned out to be NHL, she told me it's nothing-it's only gas, forget about it. I am guessing that is what the pastors wife was healed of. Oh, to this day I poke fun at my wife's medical acumen. It's a good laugh between us.

I know those questions are useless to pose to your friend. You wonder about some folk. Am sure for the pastor it is just simple marketing tool to bring in more gullible people. Who else would buy it?

And her last statement is so funny "in my opinion there is no other explanation needed" LOL. Why does god only want gullible people in heaven? I sure tried to be that gullible. Never worked for me.

Thanks for telling me this. Got my laugh in for the day.

 I really haven't felt much like making an update on my health. But here goes, short and sweet. I got a call Friday mornng and the person said "Do you have time to take a call from your Oncologist?" Not something I wanted to hear and my forehead immediately broke out in sweat. On a funny note a friend of mine said the right answer to this question is "Do I?"

When I had NHL back in 1998, we never talked by phone. But anyway I took his call obviously. Two things came in. He got the neurosurgeon's report. The NS said the tumor was bigger than he had expected from the MRI and he was surprised I was still in pain, albeit not as bad. Secondly, the NIH report came in. There are 3 grade levels of NHL - 1,2,3. I had grade 2 in 1998. It is now a step up to grade 3. There is controversy on how to treat it. My oncologist is going to stick to the conservative approach originally planned as if it was grade 2. 

But up first is radiation for 2 weeks, then 6 treatments over 6 months of chemo.  I was emotionally spent and so was my wife by day's end. I think we did our best to forget about it over the weekend. That certainly was needed.

Hopefully in about 3 weeks I will be pain free after the radiation. Boy, that would be sweet. To be able to sleep more than 1 to 2 hours at a time. The pain wakes me up and then I have to go walking around in circles in the basement for 20mins and stare at the clock for when I can take my next painkiller. I know others who have it worse than me right now, but what does that prove except God loves to watch people in pain (obligatory religion reference)  

I am glad for medical science. I would have been gone in '98 otherwise.

Time for a circle - every one join hands.  On the count of three....one...two...three

THAT SUCKS!!!!!

Here's hoping the radiation treatments do the trick for the pain. 

Thanks for the laugh CJ

I know how I'd cope with that much pain.

Not very well.

Ex, my forehead broke out in a sweat just seeing this thread being updated with new comments.

You're going to be ok.   I know you are.

You're good people.

It's just not cool if you're not ok.  Not cool at all.

I really hope it all goes well.

Keep us posted ex-minister and hang in there.

Ex-minister, that's a hilarious post about the meanings of all religions!  Glad your surgery went well! Keep up the good work buddy!

Ditto what cj said. Keep up the good fight ex-min, we're pulling for you. 

 I have told a number more people my situation and am getting the prayers and thoughts responses. Also there is the occasional we are putting you on prayer list at church. I got one email asking for permission to put me on a prayer list at church. I don't get that. I work with this person and didn't want to get into it, so I didn't say yes or no, but say simply thank you which they could apply to a number of the thoughts/questions in the email. How strange this is. I don't know the church so what does it matter and I certainly don't know the brand of christian god (perhaps ICOC).

But wouldn't it seem if people are praying for me they would hear god say "Hey, he is an atheist asshole, stop bugging me about him." Perhaps the prayer is a one-way street and you need something like a ouija board or Urim and Thummin to determine if it was truly answered or there was simply a busy signal (i.e. life just played out).

In an Andy Rooney voice "Have you ever noticed the people who tell you they are praying for you also tell you you can cure your cancer with vitamin B-17 and apricot seeds?"  

In my nicest church lady voice, "Thank you for that."

Wouldn't it be nice if there really was a giant bass voice from the sky, "Leave me the fuck alone about all those sick atheists!  They're sick --- duh!!"

My sister converted to JW - and it is just a reflection of her complete lack of critical thinking skills.  She is so one of those people - "I'm praying for you and by the way, have you tried this quack medicine my church sister told me about?"  Nutcase.

 I called my mother this am because she called me yesterday and I was in a lot of pain. I could tell she was tearing up before we hung up.

Today I am better and we chatted for awhile. It was pleasant UNTIL she started to get into how her brother is very worried about me. He has in the past few years given up the normal vices (wine, women & song) for the religious vice (fundie brand of course). He did leave me a voice mail awhile I noted above somewhere above where he was praying for me. Because he is now become religious my mother thinks he is so much a better person. Many are unconvinced. Anyway she had to pass on to me that he said I should read my Bible.   

Bad move. Don't poke the bear. I got real straight with her. 

Quotes from me

"Does he think I never read it?"

"Doesn't he know I spent years doing that and dedicated myself to it as not many have?" (everyone knows-I was the white sheep of the family for years)

"I didn't have very good self esteem when young and the Bible continued to tear that down. Everywhere it says I am worthless/evil and God is the only being who can do things right. I figured there was no way I was going to get on his good side. And mom, can you imagine telling a child every day he is bad and the only way he can be good it to do everything the parent says, but he gets beaten anyway. It is best not to read the whole Bible but just the good parts. "

"My uncle has only swapped one addiction for another"

MOM: Don't you believe in a superior being?

"Hmmmm....not the one found in the Bible. As George Carlin says 'This god is either an incompetent government work or just doesn't give a sh*t".

"People are praying for me as I know you are, but I figure I pretty low on the pecking order. There the starving people in Africa and those with AIDS. And there is the war torn countries. I figure he needs to pay more attention there and I would welcome it if he did.".

"I am doing what I need to do. I have a great oncologist who got me through this before and he is sending me to doctors he trusts. Do you want me to drop those guys and just pray and take B-17 and apricot seeds? I just don't see that working. If He did heal that way, science should (or religions should) fully document that and use it as standard operating procedure. But every report I hear of people getting cured of cancer either don't tell me they have been going to doctors or have no documented proof of such a thing. Why is that?"

"There might be a god, but this one is not it"

end Quotes from me

I said a number of other things, but I am sure that will keep her quiet on the subject with me for awhile.

I know she wants me to believe because she, like AE's mom, is fretting about me burning in hell, while her, my Dad and her asshole brother will be watching me beg for a drop of water on my tongue". She has a hard enough time me dealing with cancer. How could she love such a Bastard (joseph wasn't the real father) who tortures her son for eternity. She has enough fucking stress in her life.