RRS is an antitheist organization which means...

Sapient
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RRS is an antitheist organization which means...

Quote:
Hi Brian,
My name's Kyle - I'm an open atheist. I'm writing a paper over the RRS for a class and I have a question I'd like to ask you.

(wording on this is gonna be a little weird - but i'm pretty sure you're used to this kinda stuff)

The RRS is an anti-theist organization - which means that the RRS promotes not having a religion, or the belief that there is no God. However, the belief that there is no God would make someone an atheist and atheism is a religion. It is the belief in nothing. Therefore doesn't anti-theism double back on itself? By saying the belief in God is bad because its a religion - seems contradictory. How would you respond to that?

even if you can't answer me by 9am i'd still love to know what you have to say. I'm giving my presentation Monday morning and I was going to share your response with the class (if thats cool)

thanks
-kyle

Kyle, your questions are bad ones.

We don't promote the belief there is no god, we don't even believe that ourselves. We promote the belief that there is no good reason to believe in a god, yet, and there probably never will be.

Atheism isn't a religion. Atheism is a religion like bald is a hair color. Atheism is a religion like off is a tv channel. Atheism is a religion like NOT playing baseball is a sport.

It is the belief in nothing.

This is borderline retarded. You actually think atheists believe in nothing? You know that the wording you just used is an emotional ploy from conmen to try and manipulate your mind with bullshit? I as an atheist believe in tons of things, including the belief that you have been lied to likely by multiple sources about atheists and atheism to try and convince you it's bad or doesn't make sense... just like I was.

Therefore doesn't anti-theism double back on itself? By saying the belief in God is bad because its a religion - seems contradictory. How would you respond to that?

Have you even googled the word antitheist? The wikipedia entry on it is the first link to come up. And the first definition to come up is: "An antitheist is defined by the Oxford English Dictionary as "One opposed to belief in the existence of a God." The earliest citation given for this meaning is from 1833. Furthermore, an antitheist may be opposed to belief in the existence of any god or gods, and not merely one in particular."

Do you see anything at all about antitheist being someone who thinks believing in god is bad simply because it's a religion? I don't, and I'm glad I don't, because not believing in god simply because it's a religion is one of the dumbest reasons to not believe. There are literally millions of good reasons not to believe in the god of the bible or any god for that matter, and simply because it's a religion wouldn't even be on the list.

You've been lied to, I hope you follow up with research of your own. Research outside of the dumbfucks that taught you this nonsense.

- Brian Sapient


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excellent response, brian

excellent response, brian Smiling


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I find it interesting that

I find it interesting that in his first sentence he claims he's an 'open atheist' yet he clearly has absolutely no idea what atheism is.

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Nice.  Did we ever hear of

Nice.  Did we ever hear of his retarded paper turned out?


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Why are we angry at him for

Why are we angry at him for being lied to?

 [edit: grrr... always hitting the post button too quick...]

I'm not talking about Brian's response.  I think it was directing anger towards the liars.

I mean, why are we making fun of him by calling his paper retarded?  Misinformed, prehaps, but we have no idea what um... was it Kyle?... Kyle's powers of cognition are.  Maybe he will learn from Brian's answer and write a very good paper.

It seemed like an honest, if misinformed, question.  Why not answer politely?

 

Atheism isn't a lot like religion at all. Unless by "religion" you mean "not religion". --Ciarin

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Hambydammit wrote: Why are

Hambydammit wrote:

Why are we angry at him for being lied to?

 [edit: grrr... always hitting the post button too quick...]

I'm not talking about Brian's response.  I think it was directing anger towards the liars.

I mean, why are we making fun of him by calling his paper retarded?  Misinformed, prehaps, but we have no idea what um... was it Kyle?... Kyle's powers of cognition are.  Maybe he will learn from Brian's answer and write a very good paper.

It seemed like an honest, if misinformed, question.  Why not answer politely?

 

 Hear him! Hear him!  Ambassadorial Legate Hamby has a point.  Perhaps mollycoddling ignorance is better than shaking it like a downs syndrome baby.  If we use a sweet voice and dulcet tones, perhaps the uninformed will cleave to us and fall into our order.

On the other hand, perhaps they will take our kindness for weakness and attempt to erode our resolve.  Perhaps they will behave as if they are one of us, while actually attempting to gain information for other reasons.  Perhaps the issue is a little more byzantine than what is being suggested.

Then again, perhaps we should assume the world is filled with puppies and rainbows and assumed that people's heads are filled with wonder and curiosity.

"Tis better to rule in Hell than to serve in Heaven." -Lucifer


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Quote: Perhaps

Quote:
Perhaps mollycoddling ignorance is better than shaking it like a downs syndrome baby.

You have a most unsettling talent for left handed compliments.   I approve.

Quote:
If we use a sweet voice and dulcet tones, perhaps the uninformed will cleave to us and fall into our order.

Despite your scary avatar, I heard Stewy from Family guy when I read this line.

Quote:
Perhaps they will behave as if they are one of us, while actually attempting to gain information for other reasons.

Next episode of X-Files, Theists learn that Nero has a spiderman toothbrush, effectively discrediting the entire atheist movement.

 

Quote:
Then again, perhaps we should assume the world is filled with puppies and rainbows and assumed that people's heads are filled with wonder and curiosity.

It isn't like that?

 

Atheism isn't a lot like religion at all. Unless by "religion" you mean "not religion". --Ciarin

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Hamby, you are obviously a

Hamby, you are obviously a really nice guy.  Here I slam you with as much sarcasm as I can muster in print, and you just turn and smile at me.  It is damned unsettling.  I come from a long line of WASPs, and you're supposed to curl up in a ball and weep when you read this stuff.

Oh well, I must admit though that your faux naivete brought a startlingly vivid image to mind.  I see your mother crying quietly over a cup of tea as she watches you get on the bus for your first day of school.  As the doors close, she whispers to herself, "I'm sorry I didn't tell you about the world, my little darling."

"Tis better to rule in Hell than to serve in Heaven." -Lucifer


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you could have answered his

you could have answered his questions without making fun of his intelligence. it doesn't make  you sound very rational.


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Quote: It is damned

Quote:
It is damned unsettling.

Only now are you coming to realize the full power of a Hambydammit.

Quote:
I see your mother crying quietly over a cup of tea as she watches you get on the bus for your first day of school.  As the doors close, she whispers to herself, "I'm sorry I didn't tell you about the world, my little darling."

Oddly, I'm pretty sure that's exactly how it happened.

 

Atheism isn't a lot like religion at all. Unless by "religion" you mean "not religion". --Ciarin

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friendlyskeptic79

friendlyskeptic79 wrote:
you could have answered his questions without making fun of his intelligence. it doesn't make you sound very rational.
Do you know what the definition of rational is?

 

I'll give you a hint, it's not emotionally based. 


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Quote friendlyskeptic79

Apokalipse wrote:

friendlyskeptic79 wrote:
you could have answered his questions without making fun of his intelligence. it doesn't make you sound very rational.
Do you know what the definition of rational is?

I'll give you a hint, it's not emotionally based. 

Does this mean you approve being rude while being rational ?  There could have been a measured response.

However also I sense that maybe Kyle is really not an atheist. He was trying to pose as one. 

In that sense maybe the reply needed to be a bit curt. 

 I mean if a guys says he is a theist and he wants to write a paper for his class about it and then raises some basic questions to me as a skeptic , I guess I will also not be very nice to him.

All said and done. Maybe we could still be nice to people in true Gandhi style 

I am looking for Atheists to increase my belief in God


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Venkatrajan wrote:

Venkatrajan wrote:
Does this mean you approve being rude while being rational ? There could have been a measured response.
I am not saying we should specifically set out to be rude. I'm saying that we shouldn't refrain from saying something that happens to be supported by the scientific method, just because some people hate hearing it.

 

If it's supported by science, and somebody doesn't like it, stiff shit.


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People can call themselves

People can call themselves whatever but it doesnt mean that they have in depth knowlege of how to defend their position.

This kid uses the word "atheist" to discribe themselves. But as an atheist myself, it bothers me when newbies use it but have no clue how much in depth knowlege of why one should reject a claim.

There is alot more than just simply saying, "I am an atheist". If you are going to hold that position it should have a solid foundation, and should not be used merely to "be different".

It sounds to me that this kid sees problems with theism, but has no clue how much education is needed to reject theism. You need to know things like "infinate regress" "pascal's wager" "Occham's Razor", the history of monotheism coming from polytheism, not to mention sceintific method.

I think most atheists do not want the word used in ignorance simply because someone wants to be different. This kid is the theist version of "atheist", not rooted in a solid foundation of critical thinking skills or reason. It is comming out of the mouth of someone who seems to simply want to use the word without understanding what it takes to have a solid foundation to use it and justify it.

If this kid reads this post, here is my advice.  Educate yourself, it is the only way you can use that label. Study religious history including prior polythism before the Abrahamic religions. Compair the claims of all holy books such as the Koran and Bible and OT and the magical claims within to actuall science.

 Don't write this paper about RRS from the perspective that it's owners are cootie spreaders out to barbaque kittens. RRS is not out to forcably end religion. Brian Sapient, if I am not missquoting him, takes a Jeffersonian libertarian view that answers come through the ability to question any and all claims. 

This site does not promote dictatorships or purging theism. It promotes self thought and asking questions HARD QUESTIONS of one's own beliefs regardless of where the answers may lead and to do so without fear.

"Question with boldness even the existance of God, for if there be one, surely he would pay more homage to reason than to that of blindfolded fear" Thomas Jefferson.

It is true that RRS wants to see the end of theism. But most atheists I know are not seeking some goverment forced opression of theism. Most atheists I know would say that when theism is exposed to questioning it cannot hold a candle to reason. 

RRS and I would agree with them, would say, that open debate and questioning will lead to a natural death of theism. Look at it this way. People today do not believe in Isis or Thor as real deities. Atheists simply apply the same logic in rejecting Isis and Thor, to modern popular gods such as Allah, Yahwey, and Jesus.

You unfortunatly by vertue of your writing have baught into a very bad unfounded negitive stereotype of atheists. If you are going to call yourself an atheist, then you need to reject their bullshit immage of us by refraining from allowing them to define you.

Atheists are pro reason and pro critical thought. We are positive that one can lead a decent life without superstition or a magical puppeteer in the sky. We are positive that whatever we dont know about the unverse can be researched without incerting ancient myth into it.

We are positive that the word's problems, such as famine, polution and war, can be adressed without the tribalism and divisive nature of theism.

We are positive that mental crutches can be discarded where one takes personal responsibility to scrutinize everything to insure better choices. You wouldnt buy an invisable pink lamborginni because someone claimed to have one to sell, so why would a deity be any different?

In conclusion, your letter to RRS shows your amature status as an atheist. Indeed you may be one, but you are on shakey ground and would be easy pickings for an elaborate con artist who uses apologetics to defend a magical bearded man in the sky.

You are unarmed and could potentially end up bringing a knife to a gunfight(intelectually speaking). You have a lot of learning to do. 

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Quote: There is alot more

Quote:
There is alot more than just simply saying, "I am an atheist". If you are going to hold that position it should have a solid foundation, and should not be used merely to "be different".
unless your stance is a lack of a certain position, which is what atheism literally is.

 

You shouldn't need justification not to believe in something. You should only need justification to believe in something. 


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Hambydammit wrote: Only

Hambydammit wrote:

Only now are you coming to realize the full power of a Hambydammit.

A Hambydammit?!?  That would imply that more than one exists.  That is even more unsettling than your resilience to pure, concentrated sarcasm.

"Tis better to rule in Hell than to serve in Heaven." -Lucifer


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Quote: A Hambydammit?!? 

Quote:
A Hambydammit?!?  That would imply that more than one exists.

Oh, I've definitely unsettled you.  Maybe to a lawyer, the word "a" trips alarm bells, but in the realm of logic, it makes no such implication.  Nevertheless, I wasn't constructing a logical proof, so you might need to keep worrying...

Quote:
That is even more unsettling than your resilience to pure, concentrated sarcasm.

I grew up with a father who worked the NYT Sunday crossword and was obsessed with bad puns.  Oh, and he was U.S. Marine Force Recon.  I can take anything.

 

Atheism isn't a lot like religion at all. Unless by "religion" you mean "not religion". --Ciarin

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Your comment to Kyle

This was my first visit to this website.  Sorry to say it will be my last.  In reading Kyle's inquiries to you I was left with the impression that he is a young person.  You could have responded in a way that made us antitheists sound rational, reasonable and intelligent.  Instead you crafted a response that was angry in nature, rude and certainly put me off.  While I share your beliefs I don't want to listen to your curses and abrasiveness.  You represent us poorly.


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For the record, I actually

For the record, I actually do believe there is no god. 


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Lauren wrote:This was my

Lauren wrote:

This was my first visit to this website.  Sorry to say it will be my last.  In reading Kyle's inquiries to you I was left with the impression that he is a young person.  You could have responded in a way that made us antitheists sound rational, reasonable and intelligent.  Instead you crafted a response that was angry in nature, rude and certainly put me off.  While I share your beliefs I don't want to listen to your curses and abrasiveness.  You represent us poorly.

 

I love it when people visit the site 'for the first time' ~ find one of the ancient posts and base their entire experience on that one thread. Way to be critical and logical there, sassy pants.

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Eh. I kind of like it,

Eh. I kind of like it, Renee. This was an oldie but a goodie.

I remember reading and cursing in lurker mode. I wanted to scream, "DAMMIT! I'm anti-theism, theists are people and I genuinely like them. I just can't tolerate their beliefs."

However, there was no room in this sabre battle of backhanded compliments for a rapier wit of reason carrying a shield of metaphor. lol.

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Errrr....

ContemptableWitness wrote:

For the record, I actually do believe there is no god. 

 

Is that you, Kyle?

"Experiments are the only means of knowledge at our disposal. The rest is poetry, imagination." Max Planck


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 Nope.

 Nope.


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I believe that I would like

I believe that I would like another cup of coffee.

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The Sensei Himself wrote:RRS

IT FUCKING ROCKS!

“A meritocratic society is one in which inequalities of wealth and social position solely reflect the unequal distribution of merit or skills amongst human beings, or are based upon factors beyond human control, for example luck or chance. Such a society is socially just because individuals are judged not by their gender, the colour of their skin or their religion, but according to their talents and willingness to work, or on what Martin Luther King called 'the content of their character'. By extension, social equality is unjust because it treats unequal individuals equally.” "Political Ideologies" by Andrew Heywood (2003)


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darth_josh wrote:Eh. I kind

darth_josh wrote:

Eh. I kind of like it, Renee. This was an oldie but a goodie.

I remember reading and cursing in lurker mode. I wanted to scream, "DAMMIT! I'm anti-theism, theists are people and I genuinely like them. I just can't tolerate their beliefs."

However, there was no room in this sabre battle of backhanded compliments for a rapier wit of reason carrying a shield of metaphor. lol.

Hahaha! *love*

Hey , it wasn't the thread I had a beef with ~ it was a person stating that one thread caused the end of any further browsing through the forum.

 

 

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Oh yeah I understand that.

Oh yeah I understand that. The seagull posters are irritating. However, when they bring out the good threads from days gone by, I tend to forget about them for the thread.

I forget who originally said this, "Would you want to make a friend of someone who has difficulty wiping their ass on their own despite having been taught how to do it a hundred times?"

Countless posts thousands of words long available and a single 'Fuck you' drives them away from ever reading anything else. One wonders how that would affect the birth rate in a society where a person finds a single flaw with one person and decides to never look at another individual ever.

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Renee Obsidianwords

Renee Obsidianwords wrote:

darth_josh wrote:

Eh. I kind of like it, Renee. This was an oldie but a goodie.

I remember reading and cursing in lurker mode. I wanted to scream, "DAMMIT! I'm anti-theism, theists are people and I genuinely like them. I just can't tolerate their beliefs."

However, there was no room in this sabre battle of backhanded compliments for a rapier wit of reason carrying a shield of metaphor. lol.

Hahaha! *love*

Hey , it wasn't the thread I had a beef with ~ it was a person stating that one thread caused the end of any further browsing through the forum.

 

 

yeah, but you know as well as i do that that person came here looking for an excuse to say, "you heart my feelings!  i'm never coming back!  then you'll be sorry!"

"I asked my father,
I said, 'Father change my name.'
The one I'm using now it's covered up
with fear and filth and cowardice and shame."
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darth_josh wrote:Oh yeah I

darth_josh wrote:

Oh yeah I understand that. The seagull posters are irritating. However, when they bring out the good threads from days gone by, I tend to forget about them for the thread.

I forget who originally said this, "Would you want to make a friend of someone who has difficulty wiping their ass on their own despite having been taught how to do it a hundred times?"

Countless posts thousands of words long available and a single 'Fuck you' drives them away from ever reading anything else. One wonders how that would affect the birth rate in a society where a person finds a single flaw with one person and decides to never look at another individual ever.

"Are you referring to me, dear Brother?"

Charming *face twitches*


[sarcasm]I don't recall DarthJosh asking for a lot of civil, mature discussion in a certain politics thread I posted back in ... early March, I think it was[/sarcasm]

But hey... ad homming people's posts is just fine and dandy, apparently, so don't let it get in your way, Josh.

(hint: ad homs don't contribute a whole helluva lot to conversation, regardless of format or situation.)

“A meritocratic society is one in which inequalities of wealth and social position solely reflect the unequal distribution of merit or skills amongst human beings, or are based upon factors beyond human control, for example luck or chance. Such a society is socially just because individuals are judged not by their gender, the colour of their skin or their religion, but according to their talents and willingness to work, or on what Martin Luther King called 'the content of their character'. By extension, social equality is unjust because it treats unequal individuals equally.” "Political Ideologies" by Andrew Heywood (2003)


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Kapkao wrote:darth_josh

Kapkao wrote:

darth_josh wrote:

Oh yeah I understand that. The seagull posters are irritating. However, when they bring out the good threads from days gone by, I tend to forget about them for the thread.

I forget who originally said this, "Would you want to make a friend of someone who has difficulty wiping their ass on their own despite having been taught how to do it a hundred times?"

Countless posts thousands of words long available and a single 'Fuck you' drives them away from ever reading anything else. One wonders how that would affect the birth rate in a society where a person finds a single flaw with one person and decides to never look at another individual ever.

"Are you referring to me, dear Brother?"

Charming *face twitches*


[sarcasm]I don't recall DarthJosh asking for a lot of civil, mature discussion in a certain politics thread I posted back in ... early March, I think it was[/sarcasm]

But hey... ad homming people's posts is just fine and dandy, apparently, so don't let it get in your way, Josh.

(hint: ad homs don't contribute a whole helluva lot to conversation, regardless of format or situation.)

Awww. You thought about me. How sweet.

Civil, mature discussion runs two ways. Otherwise, it winds up being some solipsistic rant about wanting a troll label.

For the record, one cannot ad hom a post.

I apologize if I've hurt your precious feelings sometime in the past. Perhaps you'll be capable of building the metaphorical bridge to get over it. Ad Hom courtesy of this discussion.

Love ya. Mean it.

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I appeared to have lowered you down to my level of discussion

ME:3 | RRS:1

(because Sapient's always right)

darth_josh wrote:

Awww. You thought about me. How sweet.

Civil, mature discussion runs two ways. Otherwise, it winds up being some solipsistic rant about wanting a troll label.

For the record, one cannot ad hom a post.

I apologize if I've hurt your precious feelings sometime in the past. Perhaps you'll be capable of building the metaphorical bridge to get over it. Ad Hom courtesy of this discussion.

Love ya. Mean it.

 

And you call youself a Sith Lord. More like 'Jedi Midget'!


“A meritocratic society is one in which inequalities of wealth and social position solely reflect the unequal distribution of merit or skills amongst human beings, or are based upon factors beyond human control, for example luck or chance. Such a society is socially just because individuals are judged not by their gender, the colour of their skin or their religion, but according to their talents and willingness to work, or on what Martin Luther King called 'the content of their character'. By extension, social equality is unjust because it treats unequal individuals equally.” "Political Ideologies" by Andrew Heywood (2003)