Sapient interviewed by Laura Ingraham (Official thread - downloads - commentary)

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Sapient interviewed by Laura Ingraham (Official thread - downloads - commentary)

Updated thread on Sapient vs Laura Ingraham

 

The best damn atheist radio show that has ever been made, Rational Response Squad disected the Laura Ingraham interview.  This was one of the best shows we did.  Laura gave me enough material to unload and we were all livid at her.  This show is full of raw emotion, but with tons of humor.  If you have a problem with Laura being referred to as a "retarded cunt" then you should not listen to this broadcast.

(right click save as)  Download the whole show for free now!  <-- this is the file you are looking for

Here is the download to my appearance on the Laura Ingraham show. I was muted during much of the interview, it started right off the get go.  It was not a result of being boisterous.  It definitely throws you off as you have to skip over 5 big topics, because you have to summarize everything into 5-15 second clips.  You can hear how my volume is being turned up and down.   

Two other noteworthy stories from the week I was interviewed with Laura Ingraham:

Here is a 4 minute segment on the Penn Jilette show in which he talks about the Blasphemy Challenge and the Rational Response Squad.  He basically recorded a commercial for us.

Christian Science Monitor did a story on the Blasphemy Challenge within a bigger story.  The portion she wrote about me was accurate.

 

Views about the Laura Ingraham interview from other threads on this site....

Laura Ingraham what a stupid bitch

Truatheist wrote:

My e-mail to Ms. Ingraham

Laura,

I will begin this letter by stating that I have never e-mailed any radio or T.V. program until now. After listening to your “interview” with Mr. Sapient, it was easy to see that you were out of your league. Your constant ad hominem attacks, in conjunction with the numerous strawman arguments you presented against atheism were appalling. Not to mention constantly cutting his mic and endlessly interrupting him, all the while he kept his cool. A person who holds a position of theism such as yours really has no choice but to resort to these tactics. A logical argument cannot be constructed that proves a supernatural being created the universe and then sacrificed itself to itself in order to save mankind from itself.

It was easy to discern that you were simply angry that many people do not believe in the fairytale that dictates your life. You are pathetic … I feel sorry for you, I truly do!

 

Laura Ingraham hypocrite

rab wrote:

I just listened to the podcast discussing Brian Sapient's guest appearance on The Laura Ingraham Show.

Morality are commandments? Laura hasn't really read the bible. God's commandments are retarded! We get along with each other for survival and empathy.

About Mother Teresa, Apparently, Ingraham she never read Christopher Hitchens's scathing tome about her. If Teresa had been a secularist working with them, the people she cared for would have had clean facilities, food, clean clothes, and sterile needles. Millions of dollars that poured in to the charity went to the church and other missions. In Ingrams world, missionaries are there for "a reason." Mother Teresa's reason was to glorify the poor's suffering because they were suffering for Jesus! One major reason we have missionaries, especially in Africa, is because people have been missplaced because of religious intollerance and genocide.

I remember listening to Ingraham's show the day Terri Shiavo died. She went on and on about how the liberals killed this poor woman and how conservatives are about "the culture of life." Of course, that "culture of life" doesn't include the poor children that fell victim to mortar shells that her conservative president chose to drop on them. I liked it when she asked Brian what bible he reads. Pssst,, Laura, he read the same one you claim to know! "What about the women's sufferage movement?" She actually used that as an argument for theists activism! She needs to do some research on Elizabeth Statton and Susan B. Antony and what their beliefs were.

 

My views on the Ingraham vs Sapient faceoff

God-Bane wrote:

Greetings,

Before I listened to your debate with Laura Ingraham I had never really heard of the woman, so I googled her. I must admit that I found her career resume quite impressive but she is obviously lacking when it comes to the art of argumentation. Here are just four of the diverting and idiotic tactics she used:

1 - She tried to use the work of Christian missionaries as proof that there is a god and as justification for the continuation of Christianity. In my opinion, Christian charity isn't altruistic since they're only doing it because a book tells them that they have to do it in order to make it into Heaven. If a million Christians do charity work based on what a book tells them it's still not as noble as the charity work of ten atheists who do charity work without being nudged by religiosity.

2 - She asked you if you were ever going to get a job, which was a low blow and indicative of the way that Christians will desperately lash out (I thought they weren't supposed to judge people?!) when they find themselves inevitably backed into a corner.

3 - She asked you why you're up at night thinking about Christians, which was another low blow. Christianity got where it is today because Christians WERE up at night thinking about what non-Christians were doing. Christianity is where it is today because they were persistently gaining converts and voicing their views, or when that didn't work, they just killed people. At least atheists aren't killing people wholesale because they won't agree with our view

4 - The name-game was the most pathetic in my opinion. It had absolutely no relevance to the argument at hand. Naming intelligent people who believed in God, or APPEAR to have believed in God does not establish a correlation between intelligence and religion. Laura named Galileo but also left out the part where the church banned his "heretic" works, allowed him to speak to no one at religious festivals, put him on house arrest, and denied him burial at the Basilica of Santa Croce (he wasn't allowed to be buried there until almost a hundred years after his death)! She named Leonardo da Vinci but fails to realize that he was also a man of science and did not believe in the Biblical flood based on his scientific observations. If anything, they've contributed to the atheist movement because they were two great men who successfully challenged the Bible (although they didn't live to see the fruits of their success). PS: Is it really any wonder that many intelligent people during the Italian Renaissance professed to believe in God when you could be jailed or burned at the stake for not agreeing?!!

I initially sent this message via Youtube but I realized that nobody had visited the account in quite some time so I decided to send it here. Keep up the good work!

Sincerely,

God-Bane

 

A host of a business talk show decided to host me because he was disgusted with the way Laura Ingraham treated me on her show.

The story behind Brian Sapient with Saul Albom and downloads to the interview that connects atheism to the stock market... somehow.


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Trout wrote:HEY BRIAN,

Trout wrote:

HEY BRIAN, PEOPLE LIKE STALIN AND MAO HAVE CAUSED UNTOLD SUFFERING IN THE NAME OF NO GOD, don't pretend the problem is only based in theism and wave your bony finger my way.

Trout, you can always be counted on for an irrational claim, particularly if it's the sort a gradeschooler might make:

Stalinists and Maoists killed in the name of stalinism and maoism, in the names of their dogmatic ideology, not in the name of atheism. You've commited your latest weak causality fallacy.

 

Quote:

Take a look at the death and destruction caused by those who hold your worldview have done.

Take a look at how little you know what your talking about. Atheism isn't a worldview, its a lack of belief in the claims of theists.

As for your comments about native americans.... I always figured you for a self hater...

Ladies and gentleman, a theist....

Those who know the good, do the good. - Socrates

Books on atheism.


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Sapient wrote: Trout

Sapient wrote:
Trout wrote:

There was more suffering done in the name of no god last century than in all other centuries combined.

Feel free to prove that claim, it sounds like a lie to me. Let's see the stats, bring it all out. Just make sure to put Hitler, Bush, and Bin Laden into the God category. And Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, never committed a crime in the name of atheism, so prove that claim as well before you put them in the name of no god category.

Feel free to miss the point.

Atheists did horrific things last century.   Don't try to claim the moral high-ground here Brian.

 

 


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And thanks goes out to

And thanks goes out to todangst who distances himself from Mao, allowing me to distance myself from all Christians who've done wrong in the name of Christ.


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Trout wrote:

Trout wrote:
Sapient wrote:
Trout wrote:

There was more suffering done in the name of no god last century than in all other centuries combined.

Feel free to prove that claim, it sounds like a lie to me. Let's see the stats, bring it all out. Just make sure to put Hitler, Bush, and Bin Laden into the God category. And Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, never committed a crime in the name of atheism, so prove that claim as well before you put them in the name of no god category.

Feel free to miss the point.

Atheists did horrific things last century. Don't try to claim the moral high-ground here Brian.

Trout, you are the one missing the point. I'll spell it out for you;

If some who believes in God kills someone or a group of people, they are not necessarily doing it for their God or because of their beliefs.

If an atheist kills someone or some people they are not necessarily doing it in the name of their atheism or because of that particular lack of belief.

Things like 9/11, The Crusades, the atrocities against the Native Americans (is many cases, not all), etc were done in the name of God or because of their theistic worldview.

Stalin and Mao were atheists, but it was another factor, that of a poltical regime, that made them kill.

The point is that it was their irrational ideas, ideologies, etc that caused them to kill. Whether it is Maoism, Stalinism, Catholicism, Wahhabism, anti-semitism, racism, or any other idea/worldview that is the cause of the hate, dislike, etc which leads to killing, it is never atheism!

Why not? Because atheism is not even an idea in itself, but a lack of a specific one. If not believing in unicorns is not even a possible reason to kill someone, how could not believing ina God be a reason? If someone, being an atheist, even says that "God doesn't exist so all is permitted so it doesn't matter if I kill people" there still has to be a SEPARATE REASON FOR KILLING THEM! That is, even if on'e slack of belief in a god doesn't stop them, there still needs to be another reason/cause to do it for it to happen.

Simply lacking a belief is not enough. Stalin was killing off political rivals and enemies. Mao was doing essentially the same thing. The Crusaders were also killing off enemies and rivals, but they ostensively did so with the Christian banner. So while one could show that their were political, nationalistic, and possible economic causes to these acts, it was religion that was used to rally the troops.

Never did stalin's henchman go around with atheist banners or chanting atheist chants while killing.  They were killing for political reasons. 

The simple truth is taht you cannot justify the killing of anyone due to te lack of belief in a God. Something in addition is required.

Atheism is not sufficient nor necessary justification for killing. Any killing done by an atheist, therefore, requires an additional cause to the act that is not atheism.

Religion, like that of the Bible's God, is sufficient for killing. It is not necessary, but it certainly is sufficient.  Some religios are not sufficient, but Christianity certainly is.

Shaun

I'll fight for a person's right to speak so long as that person will, in return, fight to allow me to challenge their opinions and ridicule them as the content of their ideas merit.


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Trout wrote: Feel free to

Trout wrote:
Feel free to miss the point.

I didn't miss the point.  The point was atheists committed more acts of attrocity in the name of atheism then theists committed in the name of theism, and the point was a lie.

 

Quote:
Atheists did horrific things last century.

Yup, I agree with that.  That wasn't your point. 

 

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Trout wrote: HEY BRIAN,

Trout wrote:

HEY BRIAN, PEOPLE LIKE STALIN AND MAO HAVE CAUSED UNTOLD SUFFERING IN THE NAME OF NO GOD, don't pretend the problem is only based in theism and wave your bony finger my way. Take a look at the death and destruction caused by those who hold your worldview have done.

The native culture here was heavily into human sacrifice and cannibalism. I guess according to your thinking human sacrifice and canniblism are just fine and we shouldn't force our contrary views on those who practice such things. I guess you think the Indians were just a big friendly hippie commune, peace love dope. Open your eyes, Brian.

What have you done to improve the lives of native Americans, Brian? Type sanctimonious words into your keyboard? What a hypocrite.

 With comments like that I highly doubt your claims that you are a student of logic much less a Native American.  I suppose you could be a Native American and just grossly into self-hating or absolutely ignorant about history to ignore the entire events of colonization from the 15th century on forward.

However your claims about Stalin and Mao are interesting.  I don't know much about Mao but I see no evidence that Stalin was actually an Atheist.  Sure he was a Communist but it was common practice to label all Communists as Atheists and all Atheists as Communists.  In the Soviet Union the majority of Communists were Russian Orthodox and Stalin was a seminary student in that religion.  I'm not aware of any historical instance where he renounced his religion like Trotsky (Judaism) did and became an Atheist.

It belies the point that you think someone can kill someone because there was no god to tell them to.  You find this logical?  Your arguments are as convincing as anything Gene Cook or Kent Hovind dreamed up, which is to say not at all.

Come to think of it I'm not aware that Mao was an Atheist any more than what is unusual for a Buddhist or a follower of Confucianism.  However preceding his rise to power was a rebellion led by a guy who thought he was Jesus' brother and concluded with the deaths of 20 million people and the fall of the Manchu dynasty.  So if it wasn't for Christianity telling a man of faith to kill millions of people Mao wouldn't have risen to power.

Do you seriously need a history lesson on Native Americans and missionaries?  Cannibalism?  Where do you drag up this nonsense.  I can find tales in history where Christians were accused of cannibalism too so I guess, using fundy logic, all Christians eat people too.

No wonder Atheists are always angry with you. 


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Trout wrote:And thanks

Trout wrote:
And thanks goes out to todangst who distances himself from Mao, allowing me to distance myself from all Christians who've done wrong in the name of Christ.

You should thank your own reading comprehension problem instead.

I just informed you that it's a weak analogy/weak causality error to attribute the deaths caused by Stalinist/Maoist idealogy to atheism, just as it would be an error to attribute their murders to the fact that they wore pants.... both matters: wearing pants, being atheists, are incidental to the actual motives for their acts.

On the other hand, those who have done 'wrong' in the 'name of christ' are in fact doing wrong in the name of christ, ergo the belief is a root cause of their actions.

 

 

 "The name Christians was first given at Antioch (Acts 11:26) to ‘the disciples’, to those who accepted the teaching of the apostles. There is no question it being restricted to those who profited by that teaching as much as they should have.- C. S. Lewis, Mere Christianity. 

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ShaunPhilly wrote: If some

ShaunPhilly wrote:

If some who believes in God kills someone or a group of people, they are not necessarily doing it for their God or because of their beliefs.

And if the person doing the killing claims to be Christian, it can be easily demonstrated that the killing was done in contradistinction to the commands of Christ.

ShaunPhilly wrote:

If an atheist kills someone or some people they are not necessarily doing it in the name of their atheism or because of that particular lack of belief.

Why not?  If an evil dictator determines that he has no superior, no one to answer to, no God to call master, why would it be wrong to kill others?

The strong rule the weak, survival of the fittest. 

Shaun, let's say you were walking down a dark alley in a dangerous part of Philly, suddenly a group of ten large men approach you in the alley, would you feel comforted to know that these men just left a Bible study? 



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Trout wrote: ShaunPhilly

Trout wrote:
ShaunPhilly wrote:

If some who believes in God kills someone or a group of people, they are not necessarily doing it for their God or because of their beliefs.

And if the person doing the killing claims to be Christian, it can be easily demonstrated that the killing was done in contradistinction to the commands of Christ.

As usual, you're the one commiting the error you accuse others of commiting... you're missing the point. 

1) That would not change the fact that they are killing in the name of their religion as they see it. Of course religious groups disagree on these matters... that's precisely why they fight.

2) I doubt its really as easy as you see it... considering your own 'good book' includes commands from your god to slaughter various people, and so on....    each group thinks that their vision is the clear one...

Those who know the good, do the good. - Socrates

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Trout wrote: And if the

Trout wrote:
And if the person doing the killing claims to be Christian, it can be easily demonstrated that the killing was done in contradistinction to the commands of Christ.

 

And yet completely in line with God.

 

See God murders over 2 million people in the bible.

  

ShaunPhilly wrote:

would you feel comforted to know that these men just left a Bible study? 

Delusional people don't bring me comfort, they are like ticking time bombs that would be much more scary then comforting.

 

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D-cubed wrote: With

D-cubed wrote:

With comments like that I highly doubt your claims that you are a student of logic much less a Native American.

He clearly knows nothing of logic. He's an ever flowing fountain of fallacies.

Quote:
 

I suppose you could be a Native American and just grossly into self-hating or absolutely ignorant about history to ignore the entire events of colonization from the 15th century on forward.

I love the 'john wayne' picture...

    
Quote:

Do you seriously need a history lesson on Native Americans and missionaries? Cannibalism? Where do you drag up this nonsense. I can find tales in history where Christians were accused of cannibalism too so I guess, using fundy logic, all Christians eat people too.

No wonder Atheists are always angry with you.

 

Apparently he's far more angry with himself than anyone else is with him.... 

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todangst wrote: I just

todangst wrote:

I just informed you that it's a weak analogy/weak causality error to attribute the deaths caused by Stalinist/Maoist idealogy to atheism, just as it would be an error to attribute their murders to the fact that they wore pants.... both matters: wearing pants, being atheists, are incidental to the actual motives for their acts.

As usual, you'd be wrong.

The atheists who killed countless millions last century did so in complete harmony with their atheistic worldviews.

 

 

 


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Trout wrote:todangst

Trout wrote:
todangst wrote:

I just informed you that it's a weak analogy/weak causality error to attribute the deaths caused by Stalinist/Maoist idealogy to atheism, just as it would be an error to attribute their murders to the fact that they wore pants.... both matters: wearing pants, being atheists, are incidental to the actual motives for their acts.

As usual, you'd be wrong.

Great argument. Hey, what else can you do but stamp your feet, close your eyes, and say, "no, you're wrong!"

Again, you're commiting a weak analogy error. I don't expect you to concede that. But at least work it out for yourself so you can stop embarrassing yourself with this bad argument.

Stalinists killed for stalinist ideology. Maoists killed on the behalf of their great leaps forward, and the like... they weren't killing in the name of no god. Whether or not any or all of them were atheists is incidental.

Quote:

The atheists who killed countless millions last century did so in complete harmony with their atheistic worldviews.

Ah, you're already running from your position.... now it's merely 'in harmony' with their worldview, and no longer the cause.

However, errors still abound here, mainly due to your ignorance of the matter, and your insistence on remaining ignorant despite the arguments before you.

There is no such thing as an atheist worldview, as has already been explained to you. There is no 'one view' that a lack of belief in god leads a person towards....

As for a moral system, about the closest one might come to finding an 'atheist morality' would be secular humanism... but again, not every 'atheist' holds to it, and it's not a part of 'atheism".

I defy you to find anywhere within the precept of holding humans to be a value onto themselves, a view that is consistent with killing people.

 

 

 

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Sapient wrote: Trout

Sapient wrote:

Trout wrote:
Feel free to miss the point.

I didn't miss the point. The point was atheists committed more acts of attrocity in the name of atheism then theists committed in the name of theism, and the point was a lie.

The slaughter of millions done by atheists seems to be in complete harmony with an atheistic worldview.

 

Quote:
Atheists did horrific things last century.

Yup, I agree with that. That wasn't your point.

 

 

I'm glad we can agree on something. 


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D-cubed wrote:

D-cubed wrote:

Cannibalism? Where do you drag up this nonsense. I can find tales in history where Christians were accused of cannibalism too so I guess, using fundy logic, all Christians eat people too.

No wonder Atheists are always angry with you.

http://www.catherinedold.com/fcannibals.htm

 

 


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Trout wrote: The atheists

Trout wrote:
The atheists who killed countless millions last century did so in complete harmony with their atheistic worldviews.

There is no atheistic worldview.

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Trout wrote: Brian

Trout wrote:

Brian wrote:

Untill you accept what was done in the name of deities throughout human history you will not be a spokesperson for the suffering that Native Americans wrongly suffered through.

Oh what irony, how in the world do you look yourself in the mirror, There was more suffering done in the name of no god last century than in all other centuries combined.

And in your haste to condemn me, you seem to be conflating what the government did to the Indians and what the Christian missionaries did.

  

 How is saying that you are blind to the dark side of all religion are capable of condemning you. If someone is in error in their logic how is it wrong to point that out to them.

Your vicious attacks are unfound and complete crap. No one here disires to barbaque your cats or take away your bible. BUT YOU ARE BLIND to the harm religion can cause by it's followers.

This is born out in human history from polytheims to modern monotheism. Untill humanity wakes up to that, they will continue to repeate the same mistakes.

YOU CAN GO SUCK AN EGG if you think I have any intrest in creating a dictatorship MORON. It is OUR CONSTITUTION that allows me to say what I do here. I am not about to cut that protection away from myself or you. 

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todangst wrote: Stalinists

todangst wrote:

Stalinists killed for stalinist ideology. Maoists killed on the behalf of their great leaps forward, and the like... they weren't killing in the name of no god. Whether or not any or all of them were atheists is incidental.

Stalin, Mao andPol Pot and others, all committed horrible atrocities in the name of a Communist ideology that was fully atheistic, tod.

Their deeds were done, trying to produce a “new man” and a religion-free utopia.

These were mass murders performed with atheism as a central part of their worldview, they were not mass murders done by people who just happened to be atheist.

Stop being silly, todangst.

 

 

 


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Trout, how bout you stop

Trout, how bout you stop wasting our time.  (most importantly Todangsts time)

 

We're not broken records, like you appear to be, don't make us feel like we are.

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Trout, how bout you stop

Trout, how bout you stop wasting our time.  (most importantly Todangsts time)

 

We're not broken records, like you appear to be, don't make us feel like we are.

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Sapient wrote: Trout

Sapient wrote:

Trout wrote:
The atheists who killed countless millions last century did so in complete harmony with their atheistic worldviews.

There is no atheistic worldview.

You don't think atheism was at the heart of communist thought?  Come on Brian. 

 


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Trout wrote: todangst

Trout wrote:
todangst wrote:

Stalinists killed for stalinist ideology. Maoists killed on the behalf of their great leaps forward, and the like... they weren't killing in the name of no god. Whether or not any or all of them were atheists is incidental.

Stalin, Mao andPol Pot and others, all committed horrible atrocities in the name of a Communist ideology that was fully atheistic, tod.

Their deeds were done, trying to produce a “new man” and a religion-free utopia.

These were mass murders performed with atheism as a central part of their worldview, they were not mass murders done by people who just happened to be atheist.

Stop being silly, todangst.

 

Worshiping a state or human or diety blindly is STUPID, it doesnt matter if an atheist or theist is doing it. YOU are to damn stubborn to see that religion is capable of having blind followings.

NOW stop wasting our time with your fearmongering and bullshit equations to dictators. WE HATE DICTATORS TOO!

So knock of the bigoted crap, grow some balls and engauge us in debate. Otherwise you are wasting our time and yours.

Your next sentance should be:

"I claim deity X. Here is my evidence for deity X"

The inmature ad homins are wearing thin. GROW UP! I simply think you are afraid of compitition of ideas so insted of presenting a case for you deity you throw bullshit insults at us.

GROW SOME BALLS AND DEBATE! But do not think anyone here is going to put up with you or anyone else equating us to monsters.

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Trout wrote:

Trout wrote:
Sapient wrote:

Trout wrote:
The atheists who killed countless millions last century did so in complete harmony with their atheistic worldviews.

There is no atheistic worldview.

You don't think atheism was at the heart of communist thought? Come on Brian.

Communism leads to atheism.


    Atheism doesn't necessarily lead to communism.


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Brian37 wrote: NOW stop

Brian37 wrote:

NOW stop wasting our time with your fearmongering and bullshit equations to dictators. WE HATE DICTATORS TOO!

So you're willing to admit that atheism is respnsible for countless millions of deaths in the last few decades?

Are you willing to hate atheism taken to it's logical conclusion in the forms of Mao and Stalin? 


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noor wrote: Communism

noor wrote:

Communism leads to atheism.

Let's finish that statement: Communism leads to atheism, and atheist communists are responsible for the death of countless millions over the course of the last several decades. 


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Trout wrote:

Trout wrote:
noor wrote:

Communism leads to atheism.

Let's finish that statement: Communism leads to atheism, and atheist communists are responsible for the death of countless millions over the course of the last several decades.

What you fail to realize is that communism, NOT atheism, was responsible for the deaths.


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noor wrote: Trout

noor wrote:
Trout wrote:
noor wrote:

Communism leads to atheism.

Let's finish that statement: Communism leads to atheism, and atheist communists are responsible for the death of countless millions over the course of the last several decades.

What you fail to realize is that communism, NOT atheism, was responsible for the deaths.

And what you fail to admit is that atheism played an integral role in the deaths of those countless millions.

An integral part of communism is the removal of religion from the people, much like the stated purpose of this website: Fighting to free humanity from the mind disorder known as theism.


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Trout wrote: You don't

Trout wrote:
You don't think atheism was at the heart of communist thought?  Come on Brian. 

Any thought that is not theistic is atheistic.  Teaching lessons on how to drive a car is atheistic.

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Trout wrote: noor

Trout wrote:
noor wrote:
Trout wrote:
noor wrote:

Communism leads to atheism.

Let's finish that statement: Communism leads to atheism, and atheist communists are responsible for the death of countless millions over the course of the last several decades.

What you fail to realize is that communism, NOT atheism, was responsible for the deaths.

And what you fail to admit is that atheism played an integral role in the deaths of those countless millions.

An integral part of communism is the removal of religion from the people, much like the stated purpose of this website: Fighting to free humanity from the mind disorder known as theism.

I'm going to have to repeat what I said before:

Communism leads to atheism. Atheism doesn't always lead to communism.

Just because the purposes might be similar doesn't mean the initiatives are the same.


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Quote: You don't think

Quote:
You don't think atheism was at the heart of communist thought? Come on Brian.

Get your head out of your ass!

NO, that is the wrong way to look at it. When humans seek to set up a goverment they seek a utopia in doing such that lack of oversight, questioning and watchdog can coorupt any concept.

Again, the problem is blind worship and blind loyalty to a human, a party, or a goverment. These have taken both theist and atheistic forms. The biggest threat polorizing the world today is religion. The less religious, MORE PLURALISTIC and secular the less opression and more compassion that country will have.

WORSHIP of anything blindly without question is bad. People worshiped the ideology of comunism. People worship patriotism which can cause an attitude of dominionism. And can cause a cult of personality in the worship of a dictator such as Sadamn or Stalin.

Our fight here is to get believers to THINK, not to forcably opress them. 
Atheism doesnt lead to comunism anymore than capitalism. All it says is " I do not hold a belief in a god or gods". It is not a political statement.

It is because of the free market of ideas that I am here now challenging you. BOTH YOU AND I would be arrested in Iran if we publically asserted our voices or expressed concern for human rights violations.

I am an atheist, a libertarian and a capitalist. Not every atheist agrees with me or thinks the same thing I do about how goverment should be run. That would be like saying "Jerry Falwell and Jessie Jackson both think goverment should run the same way because they share the same label"

Stop handing me this garbage about how all atheist are out to become opressive dictators. GO SUCK AN EGG!

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Trout wrote: So you're

Trout wrote:

So you're willing to admit that atheism is respnsible for countless millions of deaths in the last few decades?

To call atheism responsible is to say that if the same people were theistic they wouldn't have committed their crimes.  This of course is a lie as we can see from evidence that theistic people do commit crimes, in fact as laid out in the prison population statistics, they commit crimes abundantly more frequently then atheists do.


"Religion is an insult to human dignity. With or without it you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion." - Nobel Prize winning Physicist Steven Weinberg

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Sapient wrote: Trout, how

Sapient wrote:

Trout, how bout you stop wasting our time. (most importantly Todangsts time)

 

We're not broken records, like you appear to be, don't make us feel like we are.

Sapient, Trout is an irrational troll. You'll see the same trolling behavior the entire time he's been here. He asserts something irrational, has it refuted before him, and then he just repeats it again. 

The entire board could refute him ad nauseum, he'd just repeat his original assertion.   

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noor wrote: Trout

noor wrote:
Trout wrote:
noor wrote:

Communism leads to atheism.

Let's finish that statement: Communism leads to atheism, and atheist communists are responsible for the death of countless millions over the course of the last several decades.

What you fail to realize is that communism, NOT atheism, was responsible for the deaths.

He's heard it, and he disregards it, because he's here to troll the board. 

 

 

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Sapient wrote: Trout

Sapient wrote:
Trout wrote:
You don't think atheism was at the heart of communist thought? Come on Brian.

Any thought that is not theistic is atheistic. Teaching lessons on how to drive a car is atheistic.

One of the most important principles of communist states is the removal of religion, much like your stated purpose in this website.  Atheism is at the heart of communist systems.

Teaching someone to drive a car doesn't require the abandonment of religious beliefs, communism does. 

 


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Brian37 wrote: The less

Brian37 wrote:

The less religious, MORE PLURALISTIC and secular the less opression and more compassion that country will have.

Certainly Stalin's Russia is testimony to that. 

 


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todangst wrote: He's heard

todangst wrote:
He's heard it, and he disregards it, because he's here to troll the board. 

It won't last much longer.  These situations need to get to the point where people just agree to disagree, if Trout can understand that, then great.  I hate to think how much time he's wasting of people that could be discussing issues with others who are willing to understand a position. 

 MOVE ON TROUT, find a new point.  This has become a lesson in who can repeat the same thing over and over more often, stop wasting our time.

 We don't allow trolling.

 

 

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todangst wrote: He's heard

todangst wrote:
He's heard it, and he disregards it, because he's here to troll the board.

What's better is when he keeps chanting atheism was responsible over and over like a mantra.


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Sapient wrote: Trout

Sapient wrote:

Trout wrote:

So you're willing to admit that atheism is respnsible for countless millions of deaths in the last few decades?

To call atheism responsible is to say that if the same people were theistic they wouldn't have committed their crimes. This of course is a lie as we can see from evidence that theistic people do commit crimes, in fact as laid out in the prison population statistics, they commit crimes abundantly more frequently then atheists do.

No, to call atheism responsible for the deaths of millions it would only have to be demonstrated that atheism was an integral part of their worldview, which it was in the cases of Mao and Pol Pot and others. 

I don't know why for the life of me you won't admit the obvious. 

Sapient wrote:

"Religion is an insult to human dignity. With or without it you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion." - Nobel Prize winning Physicist Steven Weinberg

Insert flippant degrading quote about atheists here.

 


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If you're a native american,

If you're a native american, which tribe do you belong to?


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KSMB wrote: If you're a

KSMB wrote:
If you're a native american, which tribe do you belong to?

My mother is a full blooded Cherokee indian, I work on the Ute Mountain Ute, Navajo and Jicarilla Apache reservations.  I'm very aware of the impact white society has had on the Native people, I'm also very aware of many decent Christian people that are dedicating their lives in serving the people of these reservations.

I've yet to see an atheist soup kitchen or homeless shelter on any of those reservations. 

Why do you think that is; KSMB? 


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Trout wrote: I've yet to

Trout wrote:

I've yet to see an atheist soup kitchen or homeless shelter on any of those reservations. 

Why do you think that is; KSMB? 

Because until now atheists didn't feel the need to convert people to their brand of thinking when doing good deeds.  I say "until now" because we are working on the foundation of an atheistic volunteer association in 2007, and we feel the need to point out that good deeds are being done by atheists because there are people like you out there that refuse to understand that atheists have always done good deeds and charity work.

I think this will be the second time you need to learn this in this thread (evidence of a dogmatic mind)...

Sam Harris wrote:

Countries with high levels of atheism also are the most charitable in terms of giving foreign aid to the developing world. The dubious link between Christian literalism and Christian values is also belied by other indices of charity. Consider the ratio in salaries between top-tier CEOs and their average employee: in Britain it is 24 to 1; France 15 to 1; Sweden 13 to 1; in the United States, where 83% of the population believes that Jesus literally rose from the dead, it is 475 to 1. Many a camel, it would seem, expects to squeeze easily through the eye of a needle.

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Sapient wrote: Trout

Sapient wrote:
Trout wrote:

I've yet to see an atheist soup kitchen or homeless shelter on any of those reservations.

Why do you think that is; KSMB?

Because until now atheists didn't feel the need to convert people to their brand of thinking when doing good deeds. I say "until now" because we are working on the foundation of an atheistic volunteer association in 2007,

So you're going to try to convert those you help to your way of thinking?  Manifest destiny here we go again.  Be prepared to take all your, "looky what the white man did to the indian" malarky out of your quiver. 

 

Sapient wrote:

and we feel the need to point out that good deeds are being done by atheists because there are people like you out there that refuse to understand that atheists have always done good deeds and charity work.

I think this will be the second time you need to learn this in this thread (evidence of a dogmatic mind)...

Sam Harris wrote:

Countries with high levels of atheism also are the most charitable in terms of giving foreign aid to the developing world. The dubious link between Christian literalism and Christian values is also belied by other indices of charity. Consider the ratio in salaries between top-tier CEOs and their average employee: in Britain it is 24 to 1; France 15 to 1; Sweden 13 to 1; in the United States, where 83% of the population believes that Jesus literally rose from the dead, it is 475 to 1. Many a camel, it would seem, expects to squeeze easily through the eye of a needle.

I don't know why you think that paragraph is so profound.  The site with the info seems to list only our government's contribution to foreign aid, not the private sector's giving as well:

Quote:

ODA is basically aid from the governments of the wealthy nations, but doesn’t include private contributions or private capital flows and investments. The main objective of ODA is to promote development. It is therefore a kind of measure on the priorities that governments themselves put on such matters. (Whether that necessarily reflects their citizen’s wishes and priorities is a different matter!)

So the first part of the statement is smoke and mirrors, it doesn't offer any proof at all that atheists out give theists.

A battered wives safehouse on the reservation supported and staffed by atheists would help to make your point, but I've yet to see one.  The charities I see on the reservations are faith based. 

 And as far as the salary ratio,  I love capitalism, I love our standard of living, I love America.

 


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Trout wrote: So you're

Trout wrote:

So you're going to try to convert those you help to your way of thinking? 

 

No, I "feel the need to point out that good deeds are being done by atheists because there are people like you out there that refuse to understand that atheists have always done good deeds and charity work."

I try to convert EVERYONE to my way of thinking, not just the people who are the beneficiaries of my charity work.

 

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Sapient wrote: I try to

Sapient wrote:

I try to convert EVERYONE to my way of thinking, not just the people who are the beneficiaries of my charity work.

 

So if I've read your statements correctly, you are opposed to the Christian missionary trying to convert people out of their native cultures and into Christianity.  Yet you feel the desire to convert people out of their native cultures and into atheism/humanism.

Seems to me a tad hypocritical.

To follow up on a question Laura asked in a round about way:

Would you like to see Catholic Charities pull out of every area they are currently involved in because they suddenly converted to your way of thinking.

Maybe they should all start websites with the stated purpose of Fighting to Free Humanity from the Mind Disorder known as Theism.  Do you honestly think the world would be a better place?

 


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Trout wrote: So if I've

Trout wrote:

So if I've read your statements correctly, you are opposed to the Christian missionary trying to convert people out of their native cultures and into Christianity.

I am opposed to them forcing Christianity on others in order to receive help, and opposed to them utilizing the dogmatic lessons of Christianity to help others while ignoring a reasonable approach to do the same.  The second part of that last sentence I'm primarily referring to the teaching that abstinence is the only way to avoid AIDS.  Give them condoms already, and start realizing that they're gonna keep screwing!

 

 

Quote:
Yet you feel the desire to convert people out of their native cultures and into atheism/humanism.

Their "native culture" is atheism.  They were born atheist.

Quote:
Would you like to see Catholic Charities pull out of every area they are currently involved in because they suddenly converted to your way of thinking.

No in fact I'd like to see more help in areas of the world that need it.

 

Quote:
Maybe they should all start websites with the stated purpose of Fighting to Free Humanity from the Mind Disorder known as Theism.  Do you honestly think the world would be a better place?

Yes, I do.

 

 

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Upon review of the mods,

This comment has been moved here.


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Trout, I like how in your

Trout,

I like how in your response to me (way above...busy day here) you quoted me, then made a comment that I had already said as a response.  It's like you didn't even read the whole post.

Anyway, the reason I'm replying is to say that many atheists work in those faith-based charity places.  they do it because historically, atheists have not been able to speak up, let alone create organizations.  They are there just to help, and don't bother making a stink about their beliefs (in most cases).

It would be good for there to be an actual place where the needy could go to get help that was run as an atheist organizations, except then they wouldn't get all the nice faith-based initiatives money which the US government is handing out.

As an atheist, I'd prefer to help people among fellow atehists.  I would have no problem, however, helping out at a Christian-run facility so long as the purpose of the group was helping people, not preaching.

Shaun 

I'll fight for a person's right to speak so long as that person will, in return, fight to allow me to challenge their opinions and ridicule them as the content of their ideas merit.


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Trout wrote: D-cubed

Trout wrote:
D-cubed wrote:

Cannibalism? Where do you drag up this nonsense. I can find tales in history where Christians were accused of cannibalism too so I guess, using fundy logic, all Christians eat people too.

No wonder Atheists are always angry with you.

http://www.catherinedold.com/fcannibals.htm

 

That's one tribe in Arizona, you have a lot more to go. 


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Trout wrote: Stalin, Mao

Trout wrote:

Stalin, Mao andPol Pot and others, all committed horrible atrocities in the name of a Communist ideology that was fully atheistic, tod.

Their deeds were done, trying to produce a “new man” and a religion-free utopia.

These were mass murders performed with atheism as a central part of their worldview, they were not mass murders done by people who just happened to be atheist.

Stop being silly, todangst.

 

You know, Democracies and Republics are fully Atheist too.  However it appears you know very little about the Communist countries you reference.  Religion has always been alive and well in the Soviet Union and China.  How could countries that, according to you, had no qualms about killing millions and destroying religion allow religion to persist so openly?  Stalin recruited the backing of the Russian Orthodox Church (of which he was a member) to support the Soviet's against the Nazis (an officially Christian government).  Kinda strange for a government that opposes religion to side with the religious.

Nazi Germany was the only one that tried to apply eugenics by slaughtering a group of people.  It was done because of Hitler's belief in creationism where he believed God made the white man superior and Jews are demonic offspring.  The Soviet Union, perhaps one of the most racially diverse countries in the world didn't. 

Are you a troll who just poses as another ignorant fundy?  What university do you go to that fails to give it's students the most basic of historical and cultural information? 


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ShaunPhilly

ShaunPhilly wrote:

Trout,

I like how in your response to me (way above...busy day here) you quoted me, then made a comment that I had already said as a response. It's like you didn't even read the whole post.

 

That's been part of his modus operandi since coming here, and his entire time on infidelguy. 

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